Out of the box thinking

[ALLFARMER]

I had a plus sign between 2-4D & picloram for somereason it disappeared when I submitted.

[cowman]

Allfarmer: I think if you check my post I stated I used the industrial equivalent of Graze On? I called it Graze On because most people recognize the product as that and wouldn't know what Tordon 101 is?
Furthermore there is no difference in price. Tordon 101 sells for $15/liter, the same as Graze On. Where you might have made a mistake is until two years ago you were required to apply 2.8 liters/acre of the industrial spray versus 1.5 of the agricultural spray? Now you can apply 1.5 L/acre of the industrial spray Tordon 101.

[cswilson]

In the last 15 years we have only sprayed 40 acres with Roundup and don't use any commercial fertilizer. We do use Dectomax from time to time. Am I an organic nut or 'health freak' not really I'm just damned cheap. One of the better farmers in the neighborhood was looking at our cows last year and was wondering what supergrass they were grazing-it was a 19 year old stand of grass-told him it was good old quackgrass that we'd wintered on-he didn't believe me till I asked him to remember the last time he saw a cultivator on our land. The iron,chemical treadmill is a hard on to step off of but it's even harder to step back on once you leave. To each his own but we grow as much grass as the neighbors with alot less expense.

[cowman]

cswilson: I have to agree with you "cheap" is good...and actually "lazy" can also solve a lot of problems!
I believe everyone should always consider very carefully how they spend their money and time! The question should always be "Am I getting a decent return on my dollar spent...in both time and money"?
I do not spray chemicals for farmers. First of all they can't afford me! But I will tell you I don't go around spewing chemical fertilizer and spray on my own land either. I have a pretty good idea of the bang I get on the hayland...of course it varies from year to year depending on the weather and price of hay. Now last year it was fairly borderline but in the drought of 2002 it was an awesome investment(when you sell horse hay at $9/sq.bale, $400 N looks pretty cheap)!
On my home place, other than the hay and crop land, haven't used any chem fertilizer or sprays in several years except a bit of roundup around the fruit trees.
And I will also agree quack grass and lots of manure can make for some very lush grass!

[cswilson]

Careful there buddy were almost agreeing on something lol. Good comments.

[farmers_son]

On the topic of quack grass, manure, and out of the box thinking you might be interested in this article at:

http://beef-mag.com/mag/beef_quack_addicts/

I heard this fellow speak in Red Deer. If I recall correctly, he sold one quarter of land to hog producers with an agreement that they spread hog manure on the other three quarters in the section which he owned. He grows quack grass under high fertility and reasonably high rainfall. I believe him when he says it is profitable.

This fellow is a self described high roller.

[grassfarmer]

Interesting article farmers_son.
I like my quackgrass to, it's one benefit of buying a run down farm that was partly cropped in the past - free quack seed! I know some US dairy producers refer to it as the "king of grasses" under tight management and high fertility. It certainly suits rotational grazing and yields well here where we tend to get adequate moisture. One observation I have made this spring on an area that was formerly straight timothy hay land with very poor fertility and zero litter levels puzzles me. We have spread manure and winter fed on it and it changed pretty fast into a near mono-culture of quack with some red clover that got established through the manure. This spring there is quite a number of orchard grass plants appearing - where are they coming from as I'm guessing it isn't all that likely to volunteer normally is it? I'm surprised with the strength of the quack that it's getting a look in. Any comments?