grass-finished beef

[kpb]

I know I'm getting forgetful in my old age but sometimes I think I'm also getting dumber. I can't seem to get my head around how to finish British calves on grass. Can someone explain to this old-fashioned cattleman how to take a British calf that is born in the spring and finish that animal to 1250 pounds on grass?

If you grass that animal the next summer, I'll assume he comes off the grass at about 900 to 1000 lbs. How do you get him to fatten in the fall without feeding grain? Will he fatten on fall grass? These are likely dumb questions for all you grass-finished beef people but I truly don't know the mechanics of it since we always feed these grassers silage and barley to fatten in the fall.

thanks in advance for your replies

kpb

[grassfarmer]

kpb, you are looking at it as an add on operation to cheap overwintering and grassing which it isn't. You can't fatten them on fall grass after they have put enough weight on summer grass - the quality in the grass isn't there.
I'll tell you what I do and it is by no means the "right" or only way to do it.
Last year we weaned calves 1st November and picked a few calves to grass finish. I usually prefer heifers as they fatten easier and don't get too big. Last year I picked a few heifer's calves that were born a bit earlier (Mid - late March) they were around 600lbs. We put them on limit fed hay and a 3-4lb wheatshort ration. I don't think you can get the supreme tasting beef if you slow gains down to traditional grasser levels through the first winter. That said, next winter I will cut the grain part of the ration out as they would be big enough without it - it amazes me how cattle grow in this country. Anyway we weighed these heifers 19th May and they were @925lb average. They are running with the cows now on rotational pasture but will be pulled in July when the bulls go out and put onto their own cell. From first August they get the best grass available - the freshest regrowth on a rotational basis where they are only skim grazing maybe 1/3 of the grass. We will easily achieve over 2lbs, maybe closer to 2.5lbs, a day gain on these cattle to slaughter time. The climate here actually makes real high qualty grass for fattening in September due I think to the light frosts at night which concentrate the sugar above ground ie high energy grass. It's best not to use fertilised grass to finish them on as it will be higher protein which they don't need. We aim to slaughter right at the start of October as we can't afford to get caught with them when we get snow - besides they will be plenty weight and very well fattened by then. (690lb carcase weights last year although we didn't catch a live weight on them as we were trying to keep the stress levels down))
I also kept some steers this year which were heavier - 650lbs at weaning and that may have been a mistake. On the same ration some were over 1000lbs recently and will be too big for our existing customers - we are looking for an alternate market for them. These cattle were all by a Luing bull out of sim x red angus dams. We need to keep them going as they are only 17-18 months at slaughter and you can't kill them any younger and get the finish right, any slower and you are into a second winter which is no good.
It's a balancing act getting the age, genetics, the pasture management right and the finish right. I laugh sometimes when I read Stockman Grassfarmer as they make it out to be akin to rocket science which it really isn't.
PS I haven't tried this system in a drought year when rain stops on July first - that could be a challenge!

[whiteface]

Just my opinion, but I've done it this way and had some results that at least worked for me...
I don't actually prefer the taste of beef that has had no grain whatsoever and still recall my offensive comments to grassfarmer (and I still feel bad about it grassfarmer! sorry!) with my comment of straight grass finished beef tasting like road kill, but more likely I just don't "do it" right( the whole grass finishing process ) but anyway here are my thoughts...
For my customers that like the idea of "grass finish" or "grass fed" beef, I use the earlier born, rapid growth calves and creep them the first summer. I don't know how many of you have any of the "newer hereford" or some really good herefords but take one with a little frame and muscle, combined with a mom that milks better than average, throw a little creep at him and like I mentioned before kpb, some of these herefords could rival the average Charolais for performance, cutability, marbeling and blow them out of the water for taste. My good growthy creep-fed calves on their first birthday are easily 1000-1100 lbs and if I put them out on a fairly "hot" pasture (alfalfa mix) they will be finished easily by mid-summer and frequently can go a lot sooner if the customer in question doesn't need them to have "more time off the winter grain ration" and "likes a little grain taste in their meat." Nice thing with herefords anyway is that they will finish sooner than later (sometimes way sooner than you would like but work that into your favor!) and when you get them finished so young the meat is that much more tender and flavorful Economics I don't feel are any different, grain to grass. Just as costly to raise alfalfa as barley all things considered, I just think it's a taste and lifestyle choice.
My suggestion is kpb that you haven't lost the skills as much as maybe just finding yourself some not so great british calves you're working on. Like riding a bike, you don't lose the skills to grass fatten, but some cattle have lost the skills to grass fatten...and a whole wack of them are british cattle which is why a lot of people moved away from them. Again, just my opinion, have a good day all!

[grassfarmer]

Thanks for the apo;ogy whiteface - better a year late than never ;o)
Out of interest what are your weights going into the winter as weaned calves - to give me an idea of how much gain you are getting of these hot calves as opposed to winter feed gains.
Like you I don't think a little grain as youngsters does a lot of harm - some say they will never fatten as well on grass if they have ever consumed grain. One thing we are learning is that the all important CLAs(conjugated lineolic acids)in the beef are lost by feeding grain at any stage of their lives. The degree they lose depends how long they get grain but as we are selling a health food we must protect it's integrity. For this reason we will not feed grain to our grassfeds in future winters.

[whiteface]

Octoberish weights are usually 700 so, no not as much gain during the first winter on alf/mix hay and about 4lbs/day oat/barley/vit/min grain mix as they put on over their first summer. My goal with "grass feds" is to get most of their condition on them with milk, creep and grass the first summer then they just seem to finish so much nicer for me on grass whereas no creep just grows them out nice and slow (too slow) and they live long and stay healthy (great idea for replacement heifers, not freezer projects) they just don't seem to taste as nice. This whole process is actually just starting to take shape and is not something I used to do and so of course had waaaay different results, hence my comments last year about the road kill, and thanks for accepting my apology grassfarmer, I'm still learning all kinds of things... I think it's a maturity thing or something but milk and grain first, then grass is getting me a nice "grass finish." Thanks for reading and the inputs. Have a good night all!

[kpb]

grassfarmer, thanks for your reply and, also to whiteface for taking the time to reply.

grassfarmer, the calves that you feed over the winter and then grass to finish are 600 lbs. in November. Are these cross-bred calves,purebreds and do you calve early in the year? Also, you mention in a later post that you will not feed any grain to these calves this year. Do you think these calves can gain to 925 lbs. by mid-May on hay alone?

Grassfarmer, you know from previous posts what my biases are and you know that I have fed a variety of calves in a traditional manner for many years and have also grassed calves. My questions to you are made in good faith, not to criticize but to learn new ways of doing things.

thanks
kpb

[grassfarmer]

kpb,
We have been moving to later calving as you know but last year we had a big heifer group that calved in Mid March with cows starting in early April. This year we only kept a few heifers and calved them just ahead of the cows which started April 11th. So our calves are getting as late born as I would want them as they will be a maximum of 18 months at slaughter in fall 2006. Calving the whole herd late is worth more to me than my small beef retailing operation but if I'm struggling to get cattle finished in future due to lack of maturity I could breed a few cows earlier. With the genetics we have I don't think we will need to. Our calves last fall averaged 580lbs at weaning being either char x red baldie,char x simm/red angus or luing x red angus plus a few pure luings. They had no creep and were weaned late due to the early snow - we normally wean in the first half of October.
The type I pick for grass fattening are the calves that get fat naturally on a wintering ration - we are developing a type of Luing that is smaller framed and very heavily fleshed which really suits this market - it also leaves us with a true maternal cow type that is cheap to maintain.
I don't think it will be beyond us to keep the weight gains on cattle without grain. We used to get winter gains of 1kg (2.2lbs)in Scotland off grass silage alone on this type of calf, I'm less familier with the barley silage here which will be higher energy but lower protein than the grass version. There are 200 days between Nov 1st and May 20 so we don't need to hit those weight gains to be in the ballpark by May 20th. We can probably get around 300lbs on the grass in their final 130 days. As I say I think it is achievable although it takes careful management at every stage - you can't rough them for 8 months and then decide to grass fatten them. Proper grass finishing takes a careful laying down of flesh over time - unlike feedlot grain rations where you can turn things around in a short time with the hot feeding. I think longterm I would prefer fats to be ready at 1200lbs rather than 1250-1300lbs we just need to reduce the frame on them a bit more.
I think whiteface hit on something when she mentioned the type of cattle that have forgotton how to fatten on grass - can't blame the cattle it's the breeders in N.America that have selected genetics that suited feedlot finishing for the last 30 years. In the Luing we have the only breed on the continent that was designed specifically to grass fatten in Scotland and since transferring here has not been selected on feedlot performance. Up to now it has maybe counted against us but our day will come - look at all the Americans sourcing devon genetics in NewZealand for the same purpose.
(Apologies for rambling)

[cswilson]

We actually carcass ultasounded a group of steers off grass a few years back-they all had ample finish to grade. There are plenty of genetics available in North America that will finish on grass if you look for them. Some of the best grass to get a finish on yearlings in native bluegrass in september in this country. The bugs are pretty much done days are cooler and the cattle really harden. Don Campbell did an interesting study last year-grazing his yearlings ahead of his cows-only two days in each paddock they creamed the grass all summer and added 75 lbs to his weaning weight. What would be the problem with finishing yearlings on good dairy quality hay in the late fall if your pasture runs out-good cattle will get pretty thick on an all forage diet. We've had yealings gain over 4lbs a day here over the grass season -if I remember right the whole group averaged around 21/2 pounds.

[grassfarmer]

All the modern research or theories coming out of the grass movement in the US say that proper fattening resulting in quality beef cannot be done on hay- doesn't matter how good the hay is. I don't know if that is true or not - in the UK plenty cattle were fattened on al lib grass silage. They reached grading specs. there which are a little leaner than we grade at here but how it tasted I don't know. Again there is the problem of dropping CLA values right before slaughter. I still think that is important because if we start fudging the health aspect of grassfed beef we are giving away our "niche" - that is what the customer is paying a premium for.
Sure you can find cattle in various breeds in North America that will grass fatten but can you name one breed that has never been selected for feedlot efficiency of offspring?

[cswilson]

Well I know for a fact that some of our thickest easiest fleshing cows also produce some of our best feedlot cattle. Cattle that do good on grass will also do well on feed but the reverse isn't necessarily true. It's not necessarily the breed but the individuals in the breed that you use.

[cswilson]

Give Dylan Biggs a call at 403 578-2404 he can give you alot of insite into producing and marketing grassfed beef and grassfed bulls-where do you think Kit Pharo got his idea from.

[grassfarmer]

cswilson, I wholeheartedly agree that the cattle that grass fatten well will also do well in a feedlot and the reverse is not true. It's also true that with most things in cattle breeding there is a bigger difference between animals within a breed than between breeds.
It just frustrates me that in N America, and in cattle breeding in general, breeders are unprepared to reward and recognise breeds differences and individual strengths. Every breed seems to want all the pie and will mongrelise(prostitute?)their breed to get it. The Red Angus breed isn't content to be the easy calving, maternal and marbling breed they set out as - they want to steal the Charolais weight gain trait. If the wildlife people got their way and ten years from now there were bears and wolves all over the prairies producers might look to more horned cattle - why shouldn't the horned hereford, longhorn and highland breeders benefit from having the cattle to do that job? Instead we would have the limousin, simmental and even angus breeders all claiming they had a horned strain all along that would be best for this trait! (Disclaimer- the breeds referred to were for example purposes only and no offence was meant to breeders of any of the breeds mentioned!)

I've been impressed with what I read of Dylan Biggs and TK ranch and their packing plant proposal is perhaps the one I would most like to invest in. But they only want Angus sired animals for their program - which is very much picking a breed over the most suitable type of cattle.
We picked up an ex customer of theirs from Calgary - couldn't get grassfed beef off them. I don't know if it was a seasonal supply problem or using a different production protocol? Anyway they are more than happy with our grassfed Luing beef.

[cswilson]

Were collecting a Biggs bull this spring he's an 11 year old that literally can winter on snowballs and promises and leaves some real practical females. His mother was probably the most flawless red angus cow I've stumbled across-she even had good feet believe it or not. This bull was their highest gaining bull on grass that year-not the biggest frame by any means. I just hope the old boy has it in him to freeze some semen .

[cswilson]

Were collecting a Biggs bull this spring he's an 11 year old that literally can winter on snowballs and promises and leaves some real practical females. His mother was probably the most flawless red angus cow I've stumbled across-she even had good feet believe it or not. This bull was their highest gaining bull on grass that year-not the biggest frame by any means. I just hope the old boy has it in him to freeze some semen .

[smcgrath76]

We have found one of the challenges in sourcing genetics is available information. This is why we have gravitated towards more mainstream breeds over the years. The extra information we need to make the right decision is mostly in mainstream breeds (right, wrong or indifferent) because of their large datasets and investments in genetic evaluation. To be perfectly fair, in the primary breed we use at home we spend a lot more time looking at US and Australian information than we do at Canadian, and in fact currently we do not feel that there are any commercially available, Canadian AI sires with enough information for us to use them. We do source natural mating sires from a producer who has most of the information we feel we need.
Short list: calving ease, weaning weight, post-weaning gain, milk, carcass yield, marbling, mature size, etc.

It is interesting that a lot of the work done in Australia, shows that sires will still rank the same for growth/carcass characteristics, whether we compare progeny of grass or grain.
If I could step out and make a suggestion, I think that the best thing that could happen to our Canadian seedstock industry would be if we could lay breed differences aside and work at combining resources to provide useful genetic evaluations that look at inputs, production and markets. That includes big and little breeds. There are a lot of great sires out there in every breed, and different sires are needed to do different things and fit different segments of the market. We just want to know which is which.