grass-finished beef

[cowman]

After a few years of not AI'ing my son has decided we need to breed twenty cows to get a couple of replacement bulls. He has twenty cows picked out but hasn't ordered any semen yet. Unfortunately he'll probably go with ABS because they have the data that he is looking for. It used to be very frustrating to go to Independent Breeders for semen and find very poor or insufficient data! Instead you got this " His momma won the fair at Regina and his sire was grand champion at the PNE"!
I did use a couple of Canadian bulls over the years. From breeders who could show me calves on the ground and cows in their own herds...and they were men I trusted to tell the truth! Quite frankly, Canadian Charlais cattle are on the whole quite superior to American charlais...in my opinion!
Got really good cattle from Cruikshanks Chairman bull and also an old char bull called FI Willard. Used an American red Angus bull that was outstanding in my opinion...Boot Jack? Used various horned herford bulls of which Vigilante was about the best.

[cswilson]

This should be interesting-what interesting data does ABS provide that Genex doesn't lol. Bootjack was a great female producer but but not great performance-I had great luck with the BC Hobo 1961 bull-if you need Horned Hereford semen watch out for F-R Lad 552 Lad 20P-I think I ginally found a Horned Hereford bull to make baldies with. What breed is your son going to A'I to-I'm just curious.

[grassfarmer]

When you talk of all the data needed to make a genetic decision I'm reminded of an interview that the late Dennis Cadzow, one of the founders of the Luing breed gave. He was cautioning that "even with the benefit of all the data and facts and figures available in this computer age, never let it be said that what we had in the past failed. The ability to select cattle by memory of cattle lines, observation and looks - true stockmanship - was what built our great breeds in the past" This was written in 1967!!
It is true when you think about the british breeds - aberdeen angus, horned hereford, galloway, highland, shorthorn were all created and selected by these master stockman without the benefit of modern scientific selection mostly in the 19th century. How much progress have british cattle breeders really made in the 20th century ? apart from the creation of the Luing breed there have been few real gains - in fact many breeds have got in a mess and had to import genetics from around the globe to "put things right".
How great have the real genetic gains been in North America if you strip away the advances in cattle feeding and nutritional/ health management?
Please don't confuse my comments on selecting on looks and observation as meaning the show ring - it has nothing to do with that, indeed Dennis decreed that the Luing breed would never be shown competitively for the sake of showing, as this had led to breeding for fads and the ruination of other breeds. To this day the cattle are only shown in a demonstration setting with the backup of weight gain or other production information. We are closer to the beefbooster philosophy than the show ring pantomime cows !

[cowman]

cswilson: He's going with charlais. He is pretty much sold on charlais. The cows we have are pretty much angus/Sim/hereford mix with angus dominating. The buyers, last fall, seemed to suddenly remember those buckskin calves can really get the job done.

[smcgrath76]

I appreciate the comments. Just thought I would add a couple to my own so that they are interpreted correctly.
I don't think that data replaces visual appraisal or cattle sense. We definitely believe in the power of data for genetic improvement. While a lot of producers have an argument about data/EPDs and that it has wrecked a lot of cattle, data has bugger all to do with it. The pace cattle are changed argues that data does work. The problem is the direction that breeding programs take their cattle.
Data is like an steering wheel in a truck. You can use it to take you anywhere, but it works best if you know where you are trying to get to.
We use data (preferably EPD) as a risk management tool. Previously, and more so post-BSE we can't afford to screw up too many breeding decisions. We know what we are trying to accomplish with our program, where we think we are going which translates into knowing the EPD profile we are looking for and the type of cattle too.
For what it's worth.