Killing old cows

[nicolaas]

and its pretty tough to get a downer cow to get up and walk into the squeeze but who said that beaurocrats have any hands on experience in the livestock industry.
I would suspect that one problem with the proposal you speak of grassfarmer is the on site slaughter at auction markets. Many of them are located in urban centres and a development permit would be required from the applicable municipality. Any development permit must be advertised to the public so I imagine it would be fairly easy to forsee what the urban folks would think of livestock being slaughtered in their midst!

[nicolaas]

just to clarify my previous post, a development permit is required for any use in addition to the one already permitted, hence a permit would have been required for a slaughter facility albeit it was not intended to be a sophisticated one.
Also, dead animals onsite until picked up by the rendering truck would be a huge problem in any municiplity rural or urban, and calling the rendering truck isn't like calling a taxi, they don't arrive on schedule.

[farmers_son]

Gee...We sure are cocky these days.

According to Emrald1, we have already tested enough cows to meet our 05 commitments so why the enthusiasm for testing more? Lest we forget, the border to the U.S. is not open yet.

Thank goodness the next BSE positive was found in the U.S. and not Canada. However the Yankees may try to wiggle out of it yet, they may even try to blame it on someone else, lord knows they have tried that one before. And we do not need to be finding any BSE positives ourselves until we get some live cattle on the south side of that line. Test enough cattle and you will find BSE positives, that is for certain. In fact it is only six months since we found last ones. We do not, repeat DO NOT, need to find another BSE positive on this side of the line for a long time, and just watch that border slam shut if find something born after the feed ban. That is a cold hard fact.

The only border this BSE positive in the U.S. may open would be the U.S. border to our live UTM cattle. Other than that, finding BSE positives is not good for international trade. It should not be that way but it is. We need to harmonize our cow tests with the U.S., not get in a race with them to see who can find the most BSE positives.

If the border opens to live cattle we should have stronger markets for our cows even within this country besides the fact that why would the Americans continue to block our live cows going south.

Until then the best place for a 4D cow is still the bush. We have met our testing requirements for 05. No one says the Canadians found 3 BSE positives out of 30,000 tested or 40,000 or 50,000 tested. They say Canada found 3 BSE cows. Lets not make it four or five. That is not covering up anything, it is just playing smart.

[farmers_son]

not according to Emrald, but according to my vet, who may or may not be accurate. Don't hang your hat on it yet,but you are absolutely right about us not needing to find another $%$&@ BSE cow on this side of the border.
I am still not completely at peace with the thought that this latest possible case won't be traced right back to dear old AB !!!

[farmers_son]

Check out: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/disemala/bseesb/surv/surve.shtml

Your vet is right. We have tested nearly 30,000 animals so far in 2005, our goal for this year and about equivalent with the U.S. given our herd size. Two cows were positive and both of those were tested with this BSE on farm program.

[grassfarmer]

I think you are totally wrong farmers_son on playing the cheating game instead of the moral high ground policy. We are doing the right thing combined with the correct offal removal on OTM cattle. We do not have a large BSE problem in Canada, of that i am fairly confident, time will prove that we have perhaps taken the smartest route of any country with BSE - in the long run. Two years has been a long time but this is early days compared to some countries experience with BSE. If we get the majority of international borders open within 1-2 years from now we have done well in comparison. By joining the US in their high stakes cheating game you risk adding another 10 years to the two we have suffered already - are you prepared to take that risk?

[cowman]

I have to agree with farmers son on this one! Maybe we are suckers for taking the high ground and not cheating, but in the big picture...it is the right thing to do!
When everyone else is cheating...does that mean I have to? This seems to be an acceptable position in just about every business nowadays? And yes, usually nice guys finish last!
I do believe that our food safety agencies have to be above politics and whatever the flavor of the day is? The confidence of the consumer is something that can be damaged beyond repair? If the Canadian or American consumer loses faith in their food safety inspectors there are lots of options for them? They can easily substitute beef right out of their diet?
I understand we run the risk of being put completly out of this business by not cheating, but in the big picture it is not whether you win or lose but how you play the game? I realize that is sort of a platitude but it is a fact of this life? We all have to choose how we care to live. Some think there is nothing wrong with screwing the next guy to get ahead, or misrepresenting a product or service? Is that wrong?
If we cover up the BSE problem, then what are we? Aren't we liars and cheats?
Do you like to do business with someone like that?

[farmers_son]

I hope I was not advocating cheating. Certainly Canada should never cover up a BSE positive if one is found here. That would be cheating and that would be wrong.

I would remind readers that Canada did pay a very big price for finding those two BSE positives last January. The USDA rule was originally written to allow in cow beef. As a result of finding those 2 more positives cow beef was struck from the rule. We have been extremely fortunate that we have had UTM boneless beef sales to the U.S. but those boneless beef sales were threatened when we found that positive cow born a few months after the feed ban. The USDA rule allowing our imports is centered around the feed ban working. Find another young cow with BSE and make no mistake about it, boneless beef will stop flowing into the U.S. whether the Texas cow is positive or not. That is how the USDA rule is written whether it is fair or not.

Canada is a country that is export dependent for not only beef sales but live cattle sales. No matter what the scientists say, if we find more BSE positives we are just giving those politicians and judges in the U.S. who for various reasons choose to see Canada as competition for American producers a hammer to hit us over the head.

Given our very low incidence of BSE in Canada, looking for more positives is like finding a needle in a haystack. But the on farm BSE program for 4D cows is like giving the CFIA a very powerful metal detector, it greatly increased the probability of finding a positive cow and actually skews the probabilities. Remember food safety is achieved by removal of SRMs, not testing.

Think of it like this. The Americans have wanted to put bullet in the head of the Canadian beef industry for a long time. Whether the issue was BSE or countervails, they have viewed imports of Canadian beef as competition for their producers and in practice if not officially there are Americans, a lot of Americans, who want to see that trade stopped or significantly reduced. American producers are going make connections between their recent prosperity and restrictions on imports of Canadian cattle. Now that they have tasted blood they are not going to stop attacking our industry. Every time we find a BSE positive we give those Americans a bullet to put in their gun. Make no mistake about it, those bullets have hit us and we are bleeding and injured. We have lost some producers and easily could loose a whole lot more. How many more bullets do we give the Americans before we take a fatal hit? Just because the U.S. may have a BSE positive of their own does not mean the Americans are going to stop shooting at us. Do we have to look so hard to find them bullets?

The message from our customers in the U.S. is clear. Stop finding BSE positives. We need to take the metal detector away from the CFIA so they won’t find anymore needles in the haystack. Especially so once we have reached our testing targets.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, by what you write doesn't that mean you agree with me rather than farmers_son?
Farmers_son, not looking for BSE cases by not testing 4D cows is covering up AKA cheating - it is what the Americans are doing. I agree there are plenty Americans that would be happy to see our beef industry disappear but I disagree that by finding cases of BSE by rigorous testing we are helping them achieve that aim. If we keep the course we are on and really get a traceability program moving, coupled with finding exceedinly low levels of BSE by testing way over OIE recommended numbers we have a good chance of getting ahead of the US in reopening export markets. Why shouldn't we be bold and make a play for their offshore markets? The governments of Asia are obviously starting to distrust the Americans with their transparant policy of not looking for BSE and covering up cases.
Lest anyone think that making a bold move like this would annoy the US and make the position of US-Canadian beef trade more difficult I would remind you that we have very little to lose on that score - the Americans are using us as and when it suits them. We are not in a postion of any power with them but they still need our beef so what have we got to lose?

[farmers_son]

Logical and reasonable comments do not make up for the fact that, and I am sure you will agree based on Britains experience, finding BSE positives does not help exports.

We can not be naive enough to believe that we can test and not find positives, they are out there even if only in very small numbers. If we are bold as you say we may open markets in Asia but we will close markets in North America. I cannot afford to demonstrate to the world how Canada is leading the way in BSE for much longer.

It is my opinion that we did not help ourselves by finding those two cases in January. Until there is a reasonable international response to finding BSE positives the nations of the world, including the U.S., are telling us you find cases of BSE at your economic peril. The politics of BSE have overpowered the science. I do see progress has been made since May 2003, there is not the same level of fear mongering now as then. But until such time as a new case of BSE does not make international news, and for certain we are not at that point yet, the negatives of finding BSE outweigh the positives of more testing.

What do we have to lose? Our farms and farmers is one thing that comes to mind.