Corporate bribery?

[mjohn]

Interesting thread. Just read the article. I wouldn't get too excited about the nitrate angle. I'm not so sure that animals can taste them. More likely they will have a stronger aversion to other bitter tasting stuff (cyanates and alkaloids etc..) typically found in several weedy species. In most cases a small amount may have no effect, but in big doses you will make the sensitive animals sick or dead. I never thought that thistle would accumulate high nitrates in a pasture, (stinkweed, lambsquarters, and pigweed in old corrals maybe??? )As for using a molasses supplement.. I think what they are driving at is any rapidly digestible energy supplement (ie grain) may help the animal deal with the nitrate.
The whole concept seems simple to me, young animals introduced to weeds at a young age will likely eat them. I heard Provenza speak about this a couple of years ago. They're going to learn it from mom. You can do this with 10 animals or 1000. Short duration, very high stock density. Competition between animals reduces selectivity in pasture. Weeds get eaten, grass gets fertilized (a la' cow) and grass grows back. Weeds are usually fewer as a result of the competition. Control of thistle and dandelion usually works this way with little more than electric fence and some planning. Weeds are usually a symptom, not the root problem. That said, some weeds may not be controlled through grazing practices as they can severely ulcer/burn the GI tract. I could deal with someone spraying knapweed or hawkweed if it showed up next door and the goal was to exterminate it. To each his own.

[kpb]

fair enough grassfarmer, your points are well made.

kpb

[cowman]

grassfarmer: I was not putting your ideas down. I truly would like to see it done. I do find your "unconventional" ideas in regards to many things interesting and they have caused me to think about them often.

[cswilson]

Haven't you guys ever heard the phrase'Happy as a horse eating thistles'. Horses love to eat the tops off canada thistles just go for a ride and turn one loose in a patch of them.Cattle will eat an amazing variety of plants if the variety is there for them. I'm kind of like grassfarmer with no chemicals and no fertilizer and we get as many cow days/acre as the chem. users. I always think there are some guys who you should hardly know-your vet, your equipment dealer and your farm supply manager-as for dandilions in a pasture they are pretty high in protein and very palatable. I guess the way we ranch is more an art while the other ways are more a science.

[cakadu]

One of the weed guys I spoke to who works for Sustainable Resources told me that dandelions have something in the neighborhood of 14% protein. Not bad for something considered to be a nuisance.

[silverback]

I hear you saying that weeds and strange plants have decent protein and other benefits, but can anyone tell me what the difference in dry matter produced is between grass or these weeds?? Do you mean that I can put more cows on a patch of Dandelions and thistles than native pasture? Side by side, what produces more??

If I can get more edible? forage from weeds instead of our grass then I need to know now so I can order some dandelion seed. Thanks

[silverback]

One problem with thistles is that many municiplities consider them weeds that they want controlled, and will issue weed notices for control of large patches of thistles.
I get them sprayed out of my pastures every other year or so and find I can keep them under control that way.

[grassfarmer]

Silverback, we are not arguing that they are an alternative crop worthy of growing rather we are looking at natural ways to utilise them and at the same time decrease their prevalance in our pastures.
I know in the UK during WW2 they did experiments with nettles and dockens both weeds that grow really strongly there with the intention of extracting the nutrients for human consumption. They trials were a spectacular failure as they couldn't grow a decent crop of them when they tried to - go figure!
Dandelions are also a calcium sink which probably accounts for the cows going crazy for them in June when the grass is lush and the cow is milking heavily. It makes sense cows need extra calcium then - what a coincidence that nature provides maximum dandelion production this time of year.

[cswilson]

My moment of epiphany came when I had a field of fall rye that we'd grazed then green feeded get away from me the next spring-solid matt of weeds about knee high-I put cattle on it and at 65cents/cow/day we got $90 bucks an acre worth of grazing off it. We used this field to test the succession theory we just let it revert back to grass-fed on it quite a bit in winter etc. I challenge anybody to come tell me which of our pastures it is. Just toured a guy through our cows this A'M they are on a 18 year old stand of grass that is bumper high on a Hemi. I realize we've got some rain but so are the guys with much higher input costs who aren't growing any more pasture. He couldn't believe me when I told him how old the grass stand was.

[cswilson]

geez cwilson, for a minute I thought you said the grass was knee high on a HUMMER and I really thought if you were driving a Hummer the cow business couldn't be all that bad where you are located !!!!

[cswilson]

Man now that would be sweet that would be like living in Alberta lol.

[cswilson]

no Hummer around this place. Grass is bumper high on the pickup though ! I walked through pastures today and can't believe how much grass there is. If hail and hoppers don't cause grief the haycrop in this area will be excellent. Folks are getting ready to silage but the fields are too wet . Had severe thunderstorm warnings and watches yesterday afternoon but didn't amount to anything.