Corporate bribery?

[silverback]

One problem with thistles is that many municiplities consider them weeds that they want controlled, and will issue weed notices for control of large patches of thistles.
I get them sprayed out of my pastures every other year or so and find I can keep them under control that way.

[grassfarmer]

Silverback, we are not arguing that they are an alternative crop worthy of growing rather we are looking at natural ways to utilise them and at the same time decrease their prevalance in our pastures.
I know in the UK during WW2 they did experiments with nettles and dockens both weeds that grow really strongly there with the intention of extracting the nutrients for human consumption. They trials were a spectacular failure as they couldn't grow a decent crop of them when they tried to - go figure!
Dandelions are also a calcium sink which probably accounts for the cows going crazy for them in June when the grass is lush and the cow is milking heavily. It makes sense cows need extra calcium then - what a coincidence that nature provides maximum dandelion production this time of year.

[cswilson]

My moment of epiphany came when I had a field of fall rye that we'd grazed then green feeded get away from me the next spring-solid matt of weeds about knee high-I put cattle on it and at 65cents/cow/day we got $90 bucks an acre worth of grazing off it. We used this field to test the succession theory we just let it revert back to grass-fed on it quite a bit in winter etc. I challenge anybody to come tell me which of our pastures it is. Just toured a guy through our cows this A'M they are on a 18 year old stand of grass that is bumper high on a Hemi. I realize we've got some rain but so are the guys with much higher input costs who aren't growing any more pasture. He couldn't believe me when I told him how old the grass stand was.

[cswilson]

geez cwilson, for a minute I thought you said the grass was knee high on a HUMMER and I really thought if you were driving a Hummer the cow business couldn't be all that bad where you are located !!!!

[cswilson]

Man now that would be sweet that would be like living in Alberta lol.

[cswilson]

no Hummer around this place. Grass is bumper high on the pickup though ! I walked through pastures today and can't believe how much grass there is. If hail and hoppers don't cause grief the haycrop in this area will be excellent. Folks are getting ready to silage but the fields are too wet . Had severe thunderstorm warnings and watches yesterday afternoon but didn't amount to anything.

[cowman]

Actually emerald, Canada thistle is a noxious weed under the weed act and must be controlled, not eradicated, but controlled. Spotted and Diffuse knapweed are restricted weeds and must be eradicated! Leafy spurge, scentless chamomile, toadflax are all noxious weeds in most areas, although some municipalities have upgraded them to restricted weed status.
When the weed inspector issues a "weed report" on a noxious weed it is basically a wakeup call that you have a problem and you need to take some action. Failure to take some sort of action will result in a "weed notice". When you get a "weed notice" you might have some options...or not, depending on the ag fieldman! Quite often you will be told what you must do. Failure to comply will result in the municipality bringing in a contractor and getting the job done...under police supervision if necessary! You will be presented with a healthy bill and if you fail to pay, it will be added to your tax bill...along with interest!
Of course it seldom comes to that but it does happen.
When you have a restricted weed, you have no options. You will comply immediately with whatever solution the Ag fieldman deems necessary.
It is interesting to note that the oil and gas companies, by and large, are very pro-active when it comes to weed control, while quite often it is farmers and particularily acreage owners who drag their feet? It is just good business for the oil companies to keep the leases weed free and the landowner happy?

[cowman]

cowman, as a former Ag Service Board member I am well aware of the process regarding weed notices. Our Board had to convene special meetings on more than one occasion to give permission for the Ag Fieldman to take equipment onto property to deal with weeds, when landowners refused to do so.
Chammomile was a huge problem out on the oil leases in this area, until our Ag Fieldmen initiated a project and worked with oil companies. Some of them were very co-operative and some needed a little prodding !

I noticed that the new Dairy Queen in town is trying to grow a fancy lawn, and obviously they weren't overly fussy about who they purchased their topsoil from, all they have growing is a beautiful crop of thistles !!!!

[cswilson]

Geez that Alberta sounds like Nazi Germany lol-glad I live in Sask. where we can still ranch right and live free.

[cswilson]

cswilson, are you trying to tell us that Sask. allows the countryside to be polluted with weeds and doesn't care?
As a matter of fact the Sask. government is looking into legislation for the livestock industry much similar to what is in place in Alberta. I will be attending a conference in October entitled Growing the Livestock Industry in Saskatoon, oranized by Sask. AG.
Alberta may be on the leading edge of many things but other provinces usually follow suit !!!! GOTCHA !!!

[cswilson]

Geez I don't remember saying anything like that but I'd find it pretty interesting if a weed cop and a mountie pulled up in my yard to say the least. My pastures look one heck of alot more pristiine and weed free -than the unsprayed zero till farm fields around me-am I whining to the municipality-unnhuh. I think it would be pretty oppressive if a bunch of plow jockeys dictated to me what my cows can graze.We actually muddle along quite well here in Sask. without the Albetta influence lol.

[cswilson]

I don't know when the weed act came into effect here in AB., but I think it originally was intended to ensure that weeds did not take over lands that were used to grow crops etc.
Actually, mounties do not enter into the picture here as far as weeds go, weed inspectors that are employed by each municipality are responsible for providing information to farmers on how to treat and get rid of noxious weeds.
Each municipality must have a weed inspector and administer the weed and pest act in order to be given their annual Agricultural Service Board grant. For the most part cswilson, it just encourages farmers to implement good farming practices.

[cswilson]

In a pasture situation weeds are just a symptom of a greater ill-nature is going to cover the ground with something and weeds always come before the grass. I think most chem farmers have a preconceived notion of what a chemical free ranch would look like-most times the wrong one. A properly managed pasture is not always a mat of weeds though it may of been at one time-as are most coneventionally farmed hay fields on their early years. I guess I'm confident I can control weeds through management not the spray can. We pretty much eliminated thistle from a pasture with one year of total rest then with grazing after that. To each is own but chequebook farming isn't always the best either.

[cswilson]

Tall buttercup is a weed that is on the list of undesireables here in AB., and this year it seems as though fields are yellow with the stuff.
Scentless chammomile usually shows up whenever soil is moved, eg: roadwork, oilfield construction etc. Many farmers have a clause in their surface leases with oil companies requiring that all equipment moved onsite must be steamed to ensure weedseeds aren't transported.

I have grazon sprayed in my pastures to control thistles when necessary, my darn limo cows prefer grasses to thistles so I have to use chemical control !

[grassfarmer]

That's a shame - not only do you spend money on Grazon, you waste plant material that could have been eaten(thistles) and of course you will kill your source of free nitrogen(legumes). I think the concept of "good" farming needs to be re-examined from a modern environmental and profitability view point. Way back when it was judged that "good farming" was perfect monocultures of selected plants - without considering that nature abhors monocultures so to "defeat" her you have to arm yourself with an array of pesticides and herbicides to kill everything but the selected "good" plant. By doing so you simplify the insect, bird and plant communities to the point that your selected plant is guaranteed to be under even greater attack by "weeds" and insect plagues like grasshoppers. Modern chemical farming was designed by the the smartest parasites in the food chain - the ag supply corporations. I wish someone could find a way to dispose of them.