tack reading

[cowman]

we in the feedlot business love to have proper id on cattle with birth day etc
this should be done bevore calves sell.
it is hard to put 1300lbs cattle going for export or even local plant for tac reading.
this the only way we are ahead of the
usa. and i be glad to pay the exstra for feeder cattle.
the border is open so you better be up to date cowman.
calves will be selling high!!!!

[farmers_son]

We are never ahead of the USA.

I do not think calves will be selling high and do not see how Canadian feedlots would be pressured to bid up for calves.

I recall some time back that people were preconditioning calves thinking they would get paid extra. Never panned out. I think it is the same with birth data etc. You would think it would have value to the feedlot but like preconditioning the feedlots will not pay for it as they are just buying commodities at the lowest price they can find.

[cowman]

I thought birth dates were basically going to be mandatory? I thought anything that might make it to 2007 had to have a recorded birth date? I would assume that could include April/May 2005 calves, especially if they are backgrounded?
I don't know grassfarmer....I see a bumper crop of grain in the making and it has to find a home? Cheap grain, access to a competitive market...could mean the feeders will be hungry? I suspect by this fall a lot of the border garbage will have sorted itself out and the Americans will be loaded with lots of money?

[grassfarmer]

As I said in another post f_s I think we will need to provide the information feedlots want - we won't get paid for it but we will be penalised if we don't do it. So in a converse kind of way that is as close to a premium as you get in a market that is not based on cost plus.
I totally disagree on the preconditioning deal - we have done it since 2001 and have got well paid every year. Paid once at the auction with a premium, paid twice by getting zero illness in calves and paid a third time by not selling fresh weaned calves at the same time as everyone else was selling. I love preconditioning but I really hope it doesn't catch on - I like my premiums too much!!

[cowman]

I think farmers son is talking about the pre-conditioning deal that was pushed by Alberta Ag about 15 years ago? The calves had to be weaned for six weeks, have all shots, cut, dehorned...all under the supervision of a vet. Then they got a little green tag verifying that they had gone through the program.
The concept was that the feeders would pay more for that type of calf, but in reality there was definitely no premium! The green tag calves sold for the same amount as calves right off the cow. The feeders, mostly backgrounders, didn't see any value in the preconditioning program, so they never bid any more for those calves.

[les]

Cowman We did the pre-conditioning thing a few yrs back and sold the calves at vjv ponoka and got between 3 and 5 cents more than non pre-cond calves

[les]

I did the same thing for several years, got a few cents more per pound and if the buyers were happy with the calves they looked for them again the next fall.
I am not anticipating a record price for calves this fall but hopefully it is better than the past year.

[farmers_son]

Cowman is correct when he suggests I was referring to the old preconditioning program.

I have done considerable work regarding feeder pricing at auctions throughout the region involving various statistical analysis tools such as linear regression and I have yet to see a true premium for steer calves, preconditioned or not. You will see premiums paid for heifer calves presumably destined for breeding but not for steers. There are always discounts for all weights of feeder calves but never premiums paid above the trend slope line. I guess I should say seldom instead of never as never is a rather unforgiving term, however premiums would be paid so seldom or rarely as to be insignificant. Although producers often believe they receive a premium based on various criteria; breed, quality, preconditioning and so on, the data does not back that belief up.

It may be possible for a producer to capture value for various on farm management practices such as preconditioning or providing birth data and so forth by dealing direct with the feedlot. Much less likely that a premium would be realized selling through an auction. Perhaps jerryk was thinking of dealing directly with the actual producer of the calf when it was suggested extra would be paid.

I would suggest that increasingly, the best way and often the only way for a cow calf producer to actually capture the value of his/her on farm management is to retain ownership of the animal through to slaughter, and ideally beyond that.

[wd40]

farmer-son is right again. As a feedloty oporator and wprking in the feedlot service sector. Feedlots NEVER receive calves from PC auctions sales and be sure and count on the previous protocalls given.

Those calves always get the full treatment at induction.

The only way is to build a relationship with a feedlot or two and sell direct or retain ownership!

[grassfarmer]

Well the feedlots that buy mine trust me and are happy with them. The cattle have got to be right first, well bred and fed cattle, obviously several weeks weaned and well onto feed. On top of that we get the vet to type up a document stating the herd health protocols we use. We also give the auctioneer a typed slip detailing the age, time weaned, feed and treatment protocol which they read out prior to selling my first pen. As I said before we get well paid for this little extra work and attention but if most want to sell scrawny, bawling calves that will get sick at the feedlot that's just fine by me. It is not true to say that preconditioning does not pay.

[cowman]

Actually grassfarmer, if you want to see the absolute top sellers at any fall sale, you will probably find they are big stout ranch green calves from a reputation herd? Bred right, from an outfit that has a long history of raising them right and a name that stands for integrity. They may be bawling but they sure aren't scrawny!
Buyers know who is doing it right, they know the personal integrity of the owner from past encounters, and they know the cattle are going to do well in the feedlot.
If you are selling your cattle at public auction the cheapest public relations you can ever do is go thank the buyer of your cattle and tell him how much you appreciate his support? You'll stand out in his mind and he won't forget you! Everyone likes to deal with people who recognize you and know that you appeeciate their efforts...just a basic human characteristic? It's the little things that make for a successful sale or business transaction.

[grassfarmer]

How do you become a reputation herd though Cowman? It was interesting to see when I moved countries from somewhere we were considered a reputation herd to a country where I was unknown and had cattle to sell for the first time.
This was when preconditioning first paid me dividends because of the ability to make a first time impression with buyers with no history to back it up. We topped the price for weight category on the day with our steers bringing over $900 average. These were March/April calves weaned October 1st and sold mid November.
I don't think it matters how good your calves are or how big a reputation you have preconditioning them nowadays will add value to them. I can't speak about peoples experiences with preconditioning 15 years ago but it seems to pay now.

[kpb]

grassfarmer, you are getting top price for your calves because they are top calves, plain and simple. I agree with cowman and wd 40, the feedlots will not pay up for pre-conditioning or anything else the cow-calf guy does--they will only pay for the best calves.

we have bought both pre-conditioned and freshly weaned calves for feeding over the years. As WD said, we treat both lots the same way at induction because we simply can't trust someone's elses word when it comes to previous treatments. That's why we won't pay up for pre-conditioning.

kpb

[cattleman2]

I both agree and disagree with the comment that you don't get paid for pre-conditioning your calves. You may not be able to break it down specifically as a premium in the sale ring but you would recieve it in the following ways:
1) Less health problems at home during weaning,
2) Calves go onto feed better as they are not sick, therefore you have extra pounds to sell,
3) your calves look "fresh" and slick haired (not "stale or dry-haired),
therefore all of the above get you more $$$'s in your pocket than the guy who just weans and ships. It doesn't take but 1 treatment of Micotil are a LAOxyVet to more than cover a $8.00/hd preconditioning program. What happens when you lose a calf...

Granted the most return is for those people that retain ownership past the end of the cows teat, but if you have a program for pre-conditioning the calves in the summer on the grass it helps before weaning as well.

I used to have lots of problems with the dreaded puemonia on the grass in Aug and Sept when the nights get cool and days still fairly warm. Started using a Bovishield 4, SomuStar PH, vacination program in July, and that really cleared that up. Also alot less treatments at the feedlot after weaning! Found it was well worth the $8.

[grassfarmer]

kpb, You wouldn't trust a signed letter by my vet specifying the treatments the calves have had?