tack reading

[kpb]

grassfarmer, you are getting top price for your calves because they are top calves, plain and simple. I agree with cowman and wd 40, the feedlots will not pay up for pre-conditioning or anything else the cow-calf guy does--they will only pay for the best calves.

we have bought both pre-conditioned and freshly weaned calves for feeding over the years. As WD said, we treat both lots the same way at induction because we simply can't trust someone's elses word when it comes to previous treatments. That's why we won't pay up for pre-conditioning.

kpb

[cattleman2]

I both agree and disagree with the comment that you don't get paid for pre-conditioning your calves. You may not be able to break it down specifically as a premium in the sale ring but you would recieve it in the following ways:
1) Less health problems at home during weaning,
2) Calves go onto feed better as they are not sick, therefore you have extra pounds to sell,
3) your calves look "fresh" and slick haired (not "stale or dry-haired),
therefore all of the above get you more $$$'s in your pocket than the guy who just weans and ships. It doesn't take but 1 treatment of Micotil are a LAOxyVet to more than cover a $8.00/hd preconditioning program. What happens when you lose a calf...

Granted the most return is for those people that retain ownership past the end of the cows teat, but if you have a program for pre-conditioning the calves in the summer on the grass it helps before weaning as well.

I used to have lots of problems with the dreaded puemonia on the grass in Aug and Sept when the nights get cool and days still fairly warm. Started using a Bovishield 4, SomuStar PH, vacination program in July, and that really cleared that up. Also alot less treatments at the feedlot after weaning! Found it was well worth the $8.

[grassfarmer]

kpb, You wouldn't trust a signed letter by my vet specifying the treatments the calves have had?

[kpb]

grassfarmer, no I trust just my eyes when it comes to putting hundreds of thousands of dollars in feeders. I suspect most guys who feed are the same--it's hard enough to make a buck on feeders, I won't take a chance that your vet may be mistaken, or the paperwork wrong, or whatever. No disrespect for your vet but I've been running all types of cattle for many years and our vet--the third one we've had--is not perfect. He's very good and a lot closer to perfect than the first two who managed to kill a few animals on this ranch years ago but he's not there yet.

You get top money for your calves because they are top calves--any feeder who is still in the business at this point knows real well what he wants in the calves he's buying for his own specific situation. Or he wouldn't still be in business. All the paperwork and assurances in the world won't make me change an induction protocol that works for me.

Pre-conditioning by itself will never get a premium but, if it means your calves are the best around, then sure you'll get top price. But if a guy has pre-conditoned calves that don't measure up, he will not get a premium just because they are pre-conditioned.

kpb

[15444]

Once again, I agree 100% with kpb. If I ever bought calves, from whatever sale, I would always treat them again. When you run margins as tight as some feedlots, a dead animal wipes out a fair amount of profit in one swipe....so why take the risk?

[poorboy]

Payback is more than advertising as preconditioned calves. If you wean your calves and start on feed for a month they will weigh more at the auction mart and have less shrink. This alone should get you more total dollars per head. The cost of vaccinating, implanting, etc. is a toss up. Most feedlots complain that they can't buy enough preconditioned calves to fill a pen at the same time, so they have to treat all animals the same as they come in.
As a calf producer, you have some death loss risk in keeping your calves longer and starting them on feed. If you wean and ship to the market within hours you seldom have any death loss.
The fat market typically peaks in that late Febraury to mid April time period, so if you have heavy calves, you want to get them to the feedlots as soon as possible because when the feedlot backs off his higher expected price for that period he can pay more for calves that will sell then. If you keep them too long, they may not be able to get enough days on feed to hit that higher fat price.
If you are weaning lighter calves that would normally hit the fat market in July, then you may be very well paid to keep them at home for a month or 3 after weaning as they usually have there fastest and cheapest gain at the start.

[cowman]

poorboy: I'm not so sure if you wean for a month if those calves will weigh more? Seems to me they go backwards for about that first month or so?
Consider this scenario as an alternative: Put them on a good creep for that month? Sure puts a "shine" on them...especially if the grass is still decent? No stress until they get on the truck! If the calves have been eating hay with their mommas, it actually really pays to go into the auction mart and feed them? Don't rely on the mart to do it...because they will just feed them some old crap not fit for bedding!
Farmers tend to not consider all expenses when they do things? I wonder if they put a true cost to everything involved in "preconditioning/weaning", if it actually pays? Some guys don't consider their time and labor as a cost, or for that matter tractor costs, electricity, etc.? I don't know about you but I want to be paid very well if I'm out babying sick snotty calves in the middle of the night? Personally I would want about $30 an hour!

[blackjack]

...have to agree with cowman on this one... maybe if they are 600 lbs and up the turn around time might be less...but the 4 and light 5 weights that we wean and buy take some time...some buyers will even discount calves that have lost their bloom...could go on but I liked cowman's comment"personally I would want about 30$ an hour"...wouldn't we all...lol...

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, you are resorting to worst case scenario again to prove your case against preconditioning / weaning.
"I don't know about you but I want to be paid very well if I'm out babying sick snotty calves in the middle of the night? Personally I would want about $30 an hour!"
It bears no relation to how we do things! We fenceline wean calves October 1st (even with our later born calves) onto grass that has been especially set up for them. We have found that you are better to leave them on grass alone rather than trying to feed them a grain ration they are unfamilier with ( we don't need to creep feed here as the calves have adequate milk and grass to be still gaining 3lbs a day at weaning). After a few days we add a trough at the back of the field to introduce them to pellets. We test weighed calves one year two weeks after weaning and found they had gained 2lbs a day since weaning. They were lying sunbathing in the grass at 24C with not a concern in the world, helped by the fact they had been preconditioned by vaccinating in the spring and again at weaning. We have not treated a calf for "post weaning troubles" in 4 years.
Contrast that to conventional management where the cows were out of grass in August, the calves were already less healthy because they didn't have enough grass or milk. The calves are weaned in November into corrals after you have "toughed them out" as long as you can on the cows taking 1.5 condition score points off the cow in the process, the calves have maybe gained 1lb a day for the last month. That's when you have to "baby sick snotty calves in the middle of the night" - or else dump them in the auction to be someone elses problem. That is not what preconditioning is about.