Montana Govenor Wants Independent Inspection of Live Cattle

[rkaiser]

You're not getting it old man. It is American beef. It came from Canadian cattle, but the Americans bought it on the hoof, killed it and sold it to their own citizens.

Ted Haney is paid partly by our checkoff dollars and speaks Japanese. If he truely had any say as to where the Americans that buy our cattle sell THEIR beef, I'm sure he would prefer more offshore sales as well.

How's the American beef export federation doing Willow? And do you realise that Cargill and Tyson beef is sold in Calgary Alberta as well; and I know for a fact that some of it comes from American cattle. Boxes have been lucrative and some clients in Canada have seen enough of cow meat. High end cuts are coming north of the 49th as well. Poorer quality, I might add, but priced right.

[grassfarmer]

rkaiser,
"The majority did speak to ABP grassfarmer, the problem was, leadership for, what ever reason, did not listen."
With respect Randy that's crap. Since when did the 5(?)% of producers that bothered to turn up and vote constitute a majority?
The majority either aren't interested or are content to bitch in the coffee shop but not actually do anything about it. That is the fault of the producers not ABP. If producers really cared or were hurting enough we could have all the current ABP people that are useless (that IS a majority!)out of jobs inside two or three years. We should have started the process a while back.

[rkaiser]

I meant the majority of those who showed up at ABP producer meetings grassfarmer.

Herding cats grassfarmer, herding cats.

[cowman]

Well if the BSE crisis and a free roast dinner didn't draw out the people, what would it take? Obviously, for whatever reason, producers just don't care about the ABP? Just another little government inspired annoyance?
Back in the early nineties there was a plebisite to get rid of the mandatory checkoff...and defacto the ABP...how many voted? 12%! And you didn't need to go to any meeting...just down to the district Agriculture office! So 6% of eligible voters, voted for the ABP and that seemed to make it a legitimate voice of the cattle producer forever!
Why would anyone think they can buck the big packers on a commodity market? Take a look around and see where the hog and grain business has gone?
As long as government refuses to put checks and balances on these guys, nothing will ever change?
Wayne Easter, pretty well spelled it out in his report on the state of agriculture in Canada? I seriously doubt the feds will act on any of his recommendations? In other words we just wasted some more money and time on a make work project that will bear absolutely no fruit!

[farmers_son]

Willowcreek: Whether by accident or design your Montana Governor’s $5 inspection fee and for that matter any policy that is negative for the price of live cattle anywhere in North America serves to benefit Cargill.

I am not sure where Montana calves go to get finished, used to be quite a few came to Alberta, but it would seem to me that it is not in the best interest of Montana cattle producers to see Swifts close that plant in Hyrum. It only makes sense however that Montana cattle will be again coming into Alberta once our markets return to normal and if we continue to increase our packing capacity those Montana calves will be killed in Alberta too. We are a lot closer than the plants that are in the U.S. now.

[Willowcreek]

farmers-son--
I think the major concern with the cattle going into Montana is to guarantee that they don't end up in any US herds- with the program before, USDA did little watchdogging and many cattle from Canada meant only for slaughter ended up in US cattle herds- as well as did many US cattle that went to Canada only to be fed, that ended up in Canadian herds...The branding should handle the problem, but in some areas of the US, they don't even know what a brand is...USDA has a very poor track record of being able to oversee any program- long history of ineffectiveness and corruption....
In my part of Montana 90% go to South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Colorado to finish...A few years ago (around 2000-2001) their was many that went north one or two years- most sold on the Canadian video and handled by VJV and then after that few...Also many of those US producers that fed north of the border are going to be much more leary after seeing the slaughter house blockades of the US owned cattle that took place in Canada and found out that Canada has no law to protect them from such discrimination..That and the shakey status of the border ruling and the changing political atmosphere toward free trade agreements may slow down some US investments..

So that means we're back to status quo- except now the US producers can ship north year around which will allow yearlings that come off grass around here in early Sept to go north....

And Canadian producers are happy now back at status quo with the Packers having free run again to bounce cattle back and forth and manipulate markets on both sides!!!!! Give your CCA, ABP, NCBA reps a big KISS and BE HAPPY knowing the multinationals run the industry and every day you become more the serfs to them.....

[rkaiser]

Easy willowstick, you're mixing science and economics again. You're drunk enough already.

Canadian disease cattle getting mixed with virgin American herds, tsk tsk.

If you only knew how many Canadian producers are giving the CCA/ABP a big kiss lately willow, you might be shocked.

We do know how many, and you brag about the Rcalf number approaching 20,000, jumped up and down when Cebull stopped things in March.

Cut with the waring tribes of producers game Old Boy and get to the issues at hand. Talk your Rcalf boys into building some packing plants in the US in stead of grasping at the protectionist agenda.

[farmers_son]

Willowcreek: I am curious why you are not concerned with cattle that might come into Montana from Texas. Why are you not inspecting those cattle to ensure that they are properly branded TEX and are in sealed trucks.

For that matter, what makes Montana producers so sure they do not have BSE in their herds? I think if you were to test enough cattle in any state or province you would eventually find a BSE positive, assuming you were using the proper tests.

[Willowcreek]

farmers-son There are added restrictions in place now concerning cattle coming in from Texas-- same as Wyo and some other states... All livestock coming into the state or moving thru the state are subject to brand and health inspection.....And because of TB- Bangs and other diseases there are restrictions put on cattle from certain areas....

[Willowcreek]

farmers-son-- All cattle coming into Montana must have a certified vet inspection- and on that vet inspection it must certify if they are "M" branded or not and if they have been near "M" branded cattle-- If it is yes the following restrictions prevail...

“M” Branded Cattle
Originating from Mexico
Two negative TB tests 60-120 days apart. The first negative test can be the US entry test. The second negative test must be performed by a USDA-APHIS-VS accredited veterinarians and must be within 60 days prior of importation into Montana. (Unless approved by the Montana State Veterinarian).
Must have entry or cross-over date into U.S. and the TB test date with the shipment.
Holstein and Holstein cross “M” branded steers or spayed heifers are prohibited from entry regardless of test history.
If the animals have resided in the US over 60 days, only one TB test is required along with a statement written on the CVI by the issuing veterinarian stating to the best of his/her knowledge, they have resided in the US over 60 days. No crossover papers are needed.

Besides Mexico, Texas and Wyoming, their are also restrictions on cattle coming from New Mexico and Michigan (TB)....So Montana isn't just picking on Canada- altho the Governor is making a big issue of it for politics and to better publicize the fact of all the cattle the US imports and to show the need for M-COOL for the future......

[farmers_son]

I was aware that there are restrictions within states on movement of cattle due to TB and Bangs. And I am sure you are aware of the problem of Bangs within Yellowstone.

Certainly there is some politics being played here. The point that I was trying to make however was that the beneficiaries of these political games are the packers and not the producers.

Obviously Canada needs to focus on being disease free if we wish to continue to ship live cattle across international borders. That includes bluetongue and anaplasmosis as well as Bangs and TB. The industry in Canada is very aware of the problems associated with international trade in live cattle and is working towards increasing packing plant capacity in this country so we are not so vulnerable in the future. I am sure most cattle producers in the U.S. were aware that in normal times the U.S. imported live cattle from Canada. Hopefully those same producers were also aware that Canada was importing Montana feeders during the winter months by the hundreds of thousands. While I question whether there is a long term future in live cattle trade between countries I think the U.S. is still being unfair when it comes to BSE and their treatment of Canada given they have BSE the same as us.

While live cattle trade with the U.S. will provide a measure of short term price relief for Canadian producers I actually share Montana producers concern with live cattle entering their state, only for different reasons. Hopefully it is only short term until we can further build up our packing plant capacity. From a Canadian standpoint it would seem to make sense to add value to those live cattle here in Canada by have them slaughtered at home. Ideally in a Canadian owned packing plant. Protectionist measures in the U.S. only serve to strengthen the resolve on this side of the border to see that goal become reality. I would point out that whether the issue is a Montana Governor putting new inspections in place or the larger goal of MCOOL the benefits of those protectionist measure will all go to the packers and none to the producers.

Producers have been encouraged to think in terms of a value chain that worked within their national borders which was supposedly designed to distribute the benefits throughout the beef chain from producer to retailer. At least on this side of the border the scales have fallen from our eyes and we see that there is not a fair distribution of profits to the producer beyond the packer. If MCOOL ever becomes law in the U.S., based on our experience, I think it is safe to say that the U.S. producer will never see one nickel of benefit.

I think it is time we thought in terms of a new value chain among producers that is focused on extracting a fair return for our live cattle. This would be a horizontal value chain that would clearly identify the packers as competitors for a share of the consumers beef dollar. If Montana and U.S producers insist on viewing Canadian producers as competition to be overcome instead of partners in a North America wide effort to be fairly paid for our cattle, then you will continue to play into the hands of the packers and you will have no one to blame but yourself.

[cowman]

Willowcreek: I just don't get this big concern over Canadian heifers ending up in Montana herds? Heifers have been going back and forth across the border for the last 100 years or more! How many bulls have moved both ways in the last 50 years?
Obviously the incidence of BSE is miniscule, on both sides of the border, and as the cows born before the feed ban are pretty well dwindling out of the system...what is the problem?
Montana is like the "dogpatch" of the United States? The fact is you really could use a decent alternative market for your cattle, since you don't have a decent feeding or packing industry? Why would you want to cut your own throat by alienating your neighbor? Do you really believe we'll just roll over and let you screw us with stupid garbage like Sweitzer proposes without responding in kind?
Maybe its time for some of you guys in Montana to wake up and smell the coffee? Alberta is your natural trading partner and friend. We have one hell of a lot more in common than some eastern bastards...in Washington DC or Ottawa? Who do you think paid for that nice highway from Coutts to Shelby? Hint: it wasn't Washington and it wasn't Helena!
We can feed cattle in Alberta cheaper than you can in the USA! That isn't because we are superior people or something but because your federal government brought in policies(export subsidies) that made it impossible for the Canadian prairie grain farmer to compete! So if you wonder how come we have such a surplus of cattle and hogs up here you can lay the blame squarely where it belongs...the US government!

[cropduster]

Cowman`s statement of "we can feed cattle cheaper than you can in the US" has other reasons TOO.It`s because of Canadian gov`t policy(CWB and their feed grain carryout and export manufactured feed agreement).I believe from now on there will always be trans border squabbles becauses our American neighbors know this!!Get used to it!!

[madcow]

cowman, I'm glad to see you refer to the 'eastern bastards' as being in Ottawa,you had me concerned for a minute.I'm in N.S.the Canadian'far east' I suppose.We consider Ottawa the same as you ,only we consider that location as more the "middle".

I've been reading all the entries to this topic and many other topics.To my knowledge no one has mentioned the episode on Country Canada where the reporter went to the U.S. in search of answers.He got a few vague answers about the U.S. and BSE until he asked about the 486 "suspect cases" that were never tested.I believe the explanation was,the USDA wanted the animals tested but the food inspection people wouldn't allow the cattle into the plant.I know it makes no real difference today,it just burns me that it was the U.S position,"we're BSE free ,BSE free,BSE free,,,,oops we had ONE in Texas".What would the real story have been if they had tested like we do here.It has been a North American herd practically for ever until BSE,now it's suddenly split?We're at risk,they aren't ? It's sort of like if I pee in my end of the pool,is there end really urine free????????

We need to get beyond this and find a way to collectively put some $$$ in the producers pockets.Too bad we can't find a way to market calves to the benefit of both sides of the 49th..Sort of a cow/calf producers union for 'North Americans crazy enough to keep cattle'.The longer we're unorganized the longer the packers keep packing it away.I know it's pie in the sky, I'm just grumbling out loud,,I spend too much time alone in a tractor!

[cowman]

madcow: Sorry I used the term "eastern bastards"! Really meant "golden triangle elitist city slicker bastards"! I have no problem with any other farmers in Canada...hey we all are facing the same BS from our federal government!
We all face the same problems of a "distant" government who really just wish we would fade away!
I am somewhat dismayed that you guys keep electing federal Liberals...talk about feeding the dogs that screwed you in the first place! But I know the quality of the people from "down east"...they are workers and they can get the job done if they get half a chance!
Actually you should realize how badly you have gotten screwed in the great Canadian system?