Mother Nature and Balance

[cakadu]

With all the moisture we've had, I was noticing today that the thistles seem to be coming with a vengeance this year. After a couple of years of drought and the grasshoppers etc., they seem to have a newfound growth spurt. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the Painted Ladies - who love thistles - show up in numbers that haven't been seen in these parts for a good many years now?

I was out cutting down some thistles today and have noticed that many of them are getting black and have the Painted Lady catepillars all over them. I've left a patch of them to see just what these catepillars will do to them. My wish is that I won't have to get out there anymore with my scythe and get them down. With any luck the pupae larvae will kill them.

[grassfarmer]

How successful is cutting thistles in this climate Cakadu? It worked to a reasonable extent in the UK due to our higher rainfall which went down into the cut stalks and rotted the plant away. I started on the scythe too before graduating to a sickle mower - eventually most folk moved to a disc or flail type cutter which didn't work as well due,I think, to the stem being smashed rather than being clean cut leaving nowhere for the water to get in. I imagine you will suffer more from thistles than most - it's another byproduct of having sheep!

[rkaiser]

Timing is definately important grassfarmer, but not just the rain. Pressure on the pasture in the spring will bring on the thistle of course. Like any weed, thistle is only there to fill a spot that mother nature doesn't want bare. We try to mow when the blossom is just on, and hope for a rain. Not only rain to run down the stalk but to give the grass a boost at the same time. Rotation is also key in the process. No cows in for a good long while after a clip.

Found a shitload of these beautiful caterpillars on our Ponoka pasture where the thistles got away on me in a feeding area. I was going to mow, but decided to let these little beauties have their crack at them. I felt I would kill too many with the mower. Most plants had leaves stripped 70 to 80% and they seemed to be pretty hungry. I don't expect them to kill the thistle, but it sure has been exciting to see.

Think any city folks get excited about things like that?

[farmers_son]

I have had impressive results with Painted Lady caterpillars eating thistles in a field of lentils which had no chemical control available. The thistles were eaten down to a stalk with a sprinkling of thorns at the base. The caterpillars stopped eating after a while and the thistles recovered but they offered no competition to the crop and I was able to spray the thistles preharvest with Roundup and dessicated the lentils at the same time.

[cakadu]

Actually, just prior to the drought/grasshopper cycle, we were down to minimal thistles. We had rented the grass out and it was severely overgrazed for a couple of years, which is why we are now seeing the filling of the void with the species we don't want.

I wouldn't have suspected that sheep would cause more thistles - why would that be grassfarmer? My guess would be that in many instances sheep are grazing pretty close to the ground (even forced to do so) which would give the thistles a chance to take off. Generally our sheep do not overgraze any one area and move around quite a bit. They do their fair share of taking the buds off of the thistles, which helps reduce the number that go to seed.

It was one of the weed inspectors who told me to cut them off and let them "drown", so we've been trying that as well, hence the scythe. I'm actually getting pretty good with it. Like you Randy, I decided I was going to see what the catepillars would do in terms of destroying the plants. As the weeks go on, there seems to be more and more of them coming along.

Since I recruited my husband on several occasions to come and help me, I'm sure it will not be long until there is a sickle mower in our future either. There's bound to be one at an auction nearby.

By the way, grassfarmer, how has your collarbone healed up?

[cakadu]

Should have clarified that by "more of them coming along" I meant the catepillars.

[cowman]

If you cut off the thistles now they will do their best to survive and go into a rosette stage? Bushy and short as they try to store up energy to survive and live another day?
Everything will be geared to putting as much energy into the roots, instead of everything going to the seed heads for reproduction.
Fall is the time to kill thistles...permanently!
Cut them now, spray them around the end of August and the problem is solved...of course this won't work if you are a die hard tree hugger type! I guess the you just have to make sure you have a strong back and a sharp scythe?

[rkaiser]

Probably got about as much to do with huggin trees as it has to do with unwillingness to line the pockets of mutinationals just to see overproduction of pure quality product and low prices. But that's just me cowman.

[grassfarmer]

All information regarding MLA's salaries in available on the Government of AB. website. MLA's are paid a base salary plus a cost of living allowance, then a per diem for every committee meeting they attend.
Chair's of Standing Policy and other committees receive additional compensation.
I have no problem with the cost of living allowance as many MLA's keep apartments in Edmonton.
It would be interesting so see a comparison of salaries of MLA's across the country and find out if our MLA's salaries are above, below or mid range.
The province is currently reviewing compensation for senior officials, Deputy Ministers etc., so the review of MLA's salaries is timely.

If you feel that your MLA receives adequate compensation cowman, call him or her and let them know you aren't in favor of a salary increase.

[rkaiser]

I don't like spraying but do spray thistles when they are getting out of control. Have used mowers in the pasture as well.
They are tough to control along the creek banks where spraying isn't an option.

[blackjack]

...one the first times I can ever say that I'm happy to see them catpillars on a plant...I also was going to start mowing but seems these little guys are doing a fine job...

[grassfarmer]

In our conditions Cakadu sheep definately led to more thistles. Very heavy grazing pressure in April followed by lessening grazing pressure during the summer favoured thistles over grass. The problems were notably more severe in fields that had to be heavily utilised at lambing time. Sheep certainly graze closer which will again be tougher on grass than on thistles. Sheep also have a lot more sensitive faces than cattle and are less prepared to venture among clumps. I know Canada thistles spread by roots more than by seeds but I have a sneaking suspicion that thistle seeds can pass through a sheep and still grow which they can't with cattle.
The old motto in Scotland was "cut in June grow again soon - cut in July wither and die" Given that our seasons are about a month later in Canada I would say Randy is about right with cutting when the blossom is just on.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, you must have too much spray fogging your brain!
"If you cut off the thistles now they will do their best to survive and go into a rosette stage? Bushy and short as they try to store up energy to survive and live another day? Everything will be geared to putting as much energy into the roots, instead of everything going to the seed heads for reproduction. Fall is the time to kill thistles...permanently!
Cut them now, spray them around the end of August and the problem is solved"

Plants store their energy in their roots so if you cut them they will regrow from the energy reserves in their roots until such time as they have enough leaves to photosynthesis efficiently. Short bushy regrowth thistles resulting from being cut this late (July)in the season will be trying to grow rapidly above ground to reach maturity at the expense of root development. If you want to kill thistles by spraying with roundup transorb for example you will get a good kill late in the fall because that is when the plants have finished their seasons growth, matured and then start diverting their energy back down into the ground to prepare the roots to overwinter and grow again next year. So in fact if you insist on spraying in the fall to kill thistles cutting them now will be counter productive. Still I don't expect the chemical makers, purveyors of junk science, to tell you that as they prefer to sell you more spray every year or two to fight this ongoing problem.

[grassfarmer]

Just read a blurb on the net about the proposed pay raise. Apparently it is supposed to be 27%. Discussions supposedly took place last week in caucus, and the Liberals seem to know all about what was said which makes me suspicious.
I doubt that any of the MLA's would have leaked the info to the Liberals, so perhaps its all BS !!!

[madcow]

Funny isn't it, how everyone seems to think they are "worth" or deserve "something" and what a great job! they have done, regardless of the state of things.The fisherman down here were on a bit of a rampage last week and blockaded the ferry to Newfoundland over a dispute with federal fisheries minister Geoff Regan over crab quotas.They were arguing their point that they have a right to earn a living with their lisence and gear.That they deserve a fair return on their investments and labour.I agree.BUT. They don't work any harder or longer, or invest any more ,if as much, than we do.WE aught to have a right to a living as well,but if we whisper any such thing we are labled "the poor wining farmers " "never satisfied ".If the rest of the country had to live in our 'reality' it might do them , including the MLA's, a world of good.We can do everything right and go broke while most of the rest of the country gets paid a descent wage as long as they stay awake ,or at least don't get caught sleeping.

The industry ( one report) lost 7 billion ,were compensated 2 B while govt pats themselves on the back.???Job well done ?? Here in N.S. all we asked was to help us break even !