The missing link?

[grassfarmer]

redhen, I like to think I'm already into heritage breeds - the cattle we have were developed from 1940s Scottish Highlands and Shorthorns but have been refined into something that meets modern specifications as well. We feel our breed hasn't lost any of the traits you mention, certainly less than a lot of mainstream breeds particularily the ones that practice their selection in the show ring.

That's an interesting claim on Kerrys - I know the Dexter breed has never had a BSE case, nor has my breed for that matter. A few months ago I would have argued that had more to do with the distance they were kept away from dairy farms and feeding pail bunter calves but it seems science is now pointing to an element of genetic susceptability being implicated in which cattle develop BSE. Time will tell.

[cowman]

Somehow I doubt certain types of cattle are immune to BSE? Maybe it has more to do with the fact that some of these rare breeds are just that...rare?
It seems to me most of the BSE cows in North America were beef cows? One angus, one Salers, one Charlais, one Brahma? The Washington cow was a holstein and not sure about the other one?
There might be something to an "immunity" theory, as it seems like some people are almost completely immune to things like cancer? I think it drives the "experts" crazy when some old rake who lived a totally unhealthy lifestyle, lives to be 98 years old while all the little health freaks drop dead from cancer by the time they are fifty! Some of those old boys couldn't be killed with a two by four!

[redhen]

Good thoughts, everyone! Am I correct in understanding (I'm remembering David Suzuki's "Apocalypse Cow" 2-part focus on BSE) that if cattle, swine and poultry offal had never been used to produce protein for commercial cattle feed, we would not have a problem with BSE, or with Scrapie in sheep? If that is true, then the heritage breeds do have an advantage. Most of them have never been involved in the animal-sourced-protein food chain. They are pastured, and fed hay or grain. In most cases, their genetics have also never been compromised with out-crossing to other breeds who have already been exposed to animal-sourced protein.

[grassfarmer]

I think that's a rather over simplification on the causes of BSE. If "contaminated feed" is proven to be the main way of transmitting BSE there still had to be an original case of BSE occuring for BSE infected MBM to enter the foodchain in the firstplace. I have yet to hear a sensible counter argument to that.
To blame scrapie in a cross species contamination theory hasn't proven possible to date either. Scrapie incidentally is a very old disease probably been present in European sheep since the 1700s so it wasn't caused by sloppy rendering practises either.
I firmly believe that Mark Purdy is on the right track - complicated environmental factors cause initial sporadic BSE cases such as we have probably had in North America. This was not however the cause of the huge UK outbreak - there is no doubt in my mind this was caused by MBM feed transmission. The important point most people miss is there seems to be an initial 24-48 hour window in a calves life when BSE can spread through the stomach wall and reach the brain. This explains why it was largely a dairy disease in the UK - it is pailbunter calves that get it from the powder milk replacer and possibly protein pellets consumed at that same age. As such that is why most heritage breeds have been less affected with BSE cases. There is however research ongoing that is looking at genetic susceptability because that certainly plays a part in CJD and Altzeimers in humans.

[redhen]

A key point! I believe the answer lies in the CONCENTRATION of animal-sourced protein in feed over the past few decades. If processors had never tried to make an extra buck by selling brains and spinals cords to feed producers (instead of paying to have it properly incinerated), the concentrations of BSE in commercial feed would never have reached a level where the disease impacted entire herds, regions or countries. The occasional cow may have developed symptoms of BSE, but would not have been put into the human OR animal food chain.

[redhen]

To clarify, the BSE concentration levels were compounded each time an infected animal who had itself consumed animal-sourced protein was then processed and recycled into the commercial feed chain as more animal-sourced protein.

In the process, what might have taken thousands of years to develop naturally (ie, the occasional isolated incidence of BSE) was achieved by feed producers in a matter of years. Now, the only herds who are not at risk for wide-spread development of BSE are those who have never been exposed to animal-sourced protein of any kind, going back to the point when humankind in its wisdom first thought herbivores should be fed back to herbivores.

[redhen]

cowman, many of those old boys that live to be 98 have gone through tough times and likely a shortage of groceries on the table many times during their lifetime, plus done more work than half a dozen men do today, and it hasn't seemed to hurt them much, although I do think that logevity is hereditary for the most part. My kids say that it seems in our family the ornery ones that are tough to live around live longest !!!

[kpb]

Well redhen I'm not convinced our cattle herd is at risk for "wide-spread development of BSE". In fact I'd say it's pretty darn unlikely that you're going to see a wide-spread epidemic of BSE in Canada.

And the reason that animal by-products were fed as protein to feeders is that they were cheaper to feed. To say this is a case of feed processors, a decade or so ago, being somehow immoral or unethical, when this was a perfectly acceptable practice at the time, is a little too much like 20-20 hindsight in my books. It is oh so easy to look back in time at anybody and ask them how come they did this or that.

I get the feeling from reading your posts that you are an animal rights person or something similar. Do you actually own any cattle or is this forum just slumming for you?

kpb

[redhen]

Yes, I own livestock, and yes, I harvest and eat them.

No, I'm not slumming.

No, I'm not an animal rights activist, but I am a member of Alberta Farm Animal Care. Aren't you?

Yes, I'm pretty disgusted with the greed-based concept of feeding the offal of pigs, chickens and cows to cattle, and particularly to the calves of dairy cows -- which is how BSE got off to a rolling start in England.

Yes, I believe the practice of feeding animal-sourced protein to herbivores has exponentially increased levels of BSE-causing prions in cattle.

I would love someone to prove me wrong.

I will never feed a commercial ration with undisclosed sources of protein to my horses, sheep, ducks, geese or poultry when there are so many grain and legume alternatives.

Now, can we get back to Grassfarmer's discussion about those cows? That was the context in which I mentioned heritage cattle breeds like the Kerry, who show an apparent resistance to the development of BSE/prions as a side benefit, as a means of herd improvement to reduce the percentage of lost production years in cows. There is currently a study of scrapie-resistance (scrapie being the sheep equivalent to BSE) in heritage sheep breeds, so I think the merits of breeding back to these ancient breeds bears consideration.

[kpb]

Well redhen I notice that there are no cows included in the menagerie that you feed at your place. I've had thousands of calves and cows at my place over the years so your suggestion that I need to belong to some farm animal care group is strange to say the least. It seems to me that I struck you pretty close to home in the last post.

I get a little riled up when someone who owns no cows at all comes on here and says that unless we feed what you think is right to these animals then we're bound to have an epidemic of BSE in our herd. What exactly do you know about feeding calves, maintaining a good cow herd over the years, making a living in this business? Sounds to me like you're like a whole of people who dabble a little in something, then think they have the right to tell the people who make a living in that business just what they're doing right or wrong.

The people who have been feeding calves and cows in this country for a long time are honest, decent, hard-working people who have stuck through hard economic times and against the wacko attacks by dabblers and special interest group adherents like yourself for a long time. To say now we should have done this or that in the mid-1990's so that we wouldn't have BSE now is patently ridiculous. The people who fed protein supplement at that time, all approved and legal, cannot be blamed any more than the food processors can.

Maybe you should learn a little about the cattle industry before you have such strong opinions about what a bunch of foolhardy people the participants in it are.

kpb

[cowman]

Well Elizabeth it is good to see you are back in circulation and ready to whip some of these old boys back into a social conscience!LOL
I am unfamiliar with this Alberta Farm Care thing? What is that?

[cowman]

AFAC is a group initiated by the government that will bring in peers to work with a producer to help then understand the appropriate way to care for their animals. They are called in by various means, when animals are in crisis etc. Our municipality called them when a farmer was starving his cattle, there were deads all over the yard and some too weak to walk to the feed. AFAC did drive by and take a look but didn't do anything else, with the involvement of the local Vet the SPCA finally came out and laid charges. The guy was found guilty and fined, it made front page news and he did clean up his act somewhat after that. AFAC did not follow up with us, which was disappointing.