Bred heifers

[cowman]

sjc: Having been sort of "uninterested" in the cattle business the last few years I will admit my ignorance about the ingenity thing. I have vaguely heard a bit about it?
If you would elaborate on it a bit please? Preferably in layman terms?

[sjc]

The Leptin gene has been identified as a "obesity" gene in cattle. There are three different types catlle can possess CC, CT or TT. CC is the most commonly found in the cattle population (roughly 45%). Next is CT and TT at 29 and 26% or somewhere around there.

They have shown that the presence of the Obesity gene "T" in cattle has meant that those cattle are better able to lay down fat, reach maturity sooner, and therefore reach finished weight sooner then non "t" cattle. They marble better and therefore grade better then the alternative. Exotic breeds have more CC cattle then British breeds. Which explains a few things if you think about it.

I was a skeptic at first, and the Merial guy convinced me to test a few herdsires. By chance they happened to be TT. So, inorder for me to prove to myself this was something worthwhile, I tested some bulls that were going into commercial herds. After I knew who had a TT bull, I actually bought all of the calves from that bull and other non TT bulls and fed them out in a feedlot. The Merial people were pretty good, and we pulled hair and identified each calf in terms of what they were (CC, CT, TT). All the calves came from good operators so I was comfortable with the comparison (I did not go and pick some tall lanky steers to compare to the TT calves)and everyone was fed as one pen. By selling on the grid, and working with the lot we were able to gather info on each calf. We then cross referenced the calf and were able to sort the calves based on which of the genes they possessed. And the results were suprising. I definitely found that the calves having a "T" gene were more profitable to feed because they were hitting the grid and they were done up to three weeks sooner then the CC calves. The last few years have been trying - but a actually made a small (very small) profit feeding the "T" cattle. But the CC cattle more then made up the difference in losses.

It is actually quite interesting. It can be very detailed - I have a novel of my own data and sceintific data but it is a simple concept. It is not the end all be all but it is a tool, especially for me in the exotic purebred business to differeniate and offer value to my commercial customers.

[grassfarmer]

So if you can sell more TT animals to your bull customers at higher prices I assume you select in future for more TT cattle in your herd? How does this affect the herd? Has anyone tried TT cattle on a net feed efficiency test -aren't they only better at laying down fat/ maturing earlier because they eat substantially more? This would be worth knowing as it could lead to breeders moving to higher maintanence herd if the heifer calves inherit the same traits as their brothers.
Like all selection for carcase traits I don't think their is enough transparancy, and there certainly isn't enough monetary "trickle down" from packer to cow/calf producer to make them worth catering for unless you own the cattle right through the chain. Certainly not in comparison to the herd efficiency savings you could make by owning a herd of cows with high fertility and true maternal traits.

[cowman]

Well that is very interesting. Was this thing being done with the Charlais breed? I ask because the knock has always been that they didn't marble well, and yet I doubt there is any breed that can grow like a Char!
In the last few years they seem to have fallen out of favor as the cattle industry chases after blacks!
However last year the char calves sold right up with the blacks in my local mart! I suspect the feedlots know damned well which calves are making them money and the diversion to angus genetics as the greatest thing on earth might be coming to an end?
In my own humble opinion there isn't a better feeding animal than a char.

[kpb]

cowman, I will feed an animal of any color as long as I can look at it and know that it will gain. But I agree with you that one of my top favorites are the Char and Char cross. These calves always gain well in my experience.

I know the knock on them in the past few years has been supposedly around marbling ability and the blacks in my area and bwf generally seem to sell a little higher. But I will buy the whites and the tans all day. They feed the best over the winter.


kpb

[cowman]

The biggest knock I have personally with the chars is their feet! You have to really be careful as a lot of them have foot problems! In my opinion.
The first Char bulls we bought were from Jim Cruikshank at Olds/Alberta. I sometimes think they were the best!
Used a lot of semen from the old Chairman bull and I suspect he was probably the best bull I ever used.
Big sturdy cattle with a good disposition. The cows on a hereford cross were the best cows I'll ever own!
Docile, milk like crazy, fertile as all get out and could crank out a 750 lb. calf with no problem! Still have a few around although they are getting in that 12 to 14 year old range! Maybe too big for the "modern" concept of smaller cattle. Lots of hair.
All in all very functional cattle that made me lots of money and a pleasure to behold and work with!

[cowman]

sjc interesting stuff !

cowman, not many Char cattle in this area anymore. In fact it is a herd of white Char cattle is a rare sight anywhere . Simi's were the hot item for years but folks have gone to more moderate sized cattle and blacks are beginning to be pretty popular.

[sjc]

I am in the Charolais breed. And that is a reason why I am interested in the marbling issue. This gene allows us to compete with the other breeds who have been gaining ground on us. The main issue we have now is alot of guys kept back females and their herds are "white". If you use a TT bull and feed them ourselves, we will get paid.

I have saw a 4 University published studies that show a feed efficiency that is not significantly different to slightly better on TT and CT calves versus CC counterparts. But they do seem like they eat more. Typically they are the ones with their herds stuck in the feeder.

For the record, the Chairman calves were great, my older two cows are Chariman daughters...

[sjc]

char/limo cross calves have been gaining popularity, not too many white calves out of that cross.

[cswilson]

I just rented a Montana Silver calf out of an JWK Impressive daughter to clean up a bunch od black anfd baldie cows-he's gonna be running with some Angus bulls so we'll see if he can 'GIT 'ER DONE. We ran Charolais for 35 years then went away from them for a few. It's going to be interesting to see if his calves will be able to help our yield grades a bit but still marble.

[cswilson]

Attended the local 4-H beef windup banquet last evening. Interesting to note that out of 14 kids the breed rundown was as follows:

STEER PROJECTS
CharX 5
LimoX 4
Black AngusX 1
Red AngusX 1
SimiX 2
GelbveihX 1

HEIFER PROJECTS

LimoXx 4

SimiX 1

CharX 1


Rate of Gain went to a CharX at 3.8 pounds a day.

There is no carcass class in this club.
The club leader did a run down of the total weight of the steers shown by each of the three club members that have completed their last year in 4-H, and also the total that they have made from selling their steers on achievement day.

I don't have that info on hand but it was very interesting. One girl had made over $20,000 on 8 steers during her years in 4-H and had alternated between showing CharX. AngusX and a couple of LimoX and a couple of GallowayX.

[cowman]

CSWILSON: So does this Montana Silver calf carry this TT gene? If he is in with a bunch of Angus bulls he might have to spend the year fighting, as they seem to be the fightingist(sp?) bunch of buggers I've ever seen! Put two Char bulls in a pasture and they might occasionally push each other around a bit but put two angus together and it is a marathon of war! Actually what works is put two angus together with a char? The angus will fight all year while the char breeds the cows!
Emerald: I have always admired the Limo ability to pack on the beef. Liked the hair coat too. Not so impressed by the bone on some of them? Sure have seen some wild snaky ones that could kick past their ears! Used some Limo semen back in the eighties and they sure had a lot of hybrid vigor...a little too vigorous if you know what I mean? LOL

[sjc]

Emerald:

I judged the Red Deer District show this year, and was very impressed with the quality of steers. It is very interesting to judge a few shows and see the different breeds in different areas. I find it very comical, to watch peoples faces when I am all over a pin gutted, flat sided, tall, lanky Charolais steer and hammer him down to the back of the line and go with a good black steer or whatever. People are like what is he doing, I thought he had Charolais??? But when you do get a good char steer or heifer and they do win a class, then I am a homer. Never made any friends judging a show, but I enjoy it

[cswilson]

Ohh Cowman I've had a few Charolais bulls that liked to scrap-had a couple go through 3 fences a piece and mix three herds of cows one night. Chased 8 out of neighbors garden one night that were having a battle royal lol. Don't know what genes he's carrying all I know is the ladies like Wranglers so guess what I wear lol.

[cswilson]

yup cowman the limo calves are pretty vigorous . Not too many of them end up as coyote feed either, thanks to the fiesty mamas they have !!! I have culled the snotty cows and the flighty ones and am pretty pleased with the performance of the ones I have now. Good beefy calves, not slab sided ones and certainly packing a lot of butt !!!

sjc, judging cattle shows, particularly 4-H shows exhibits a death with on the part of the judge in my view !! Parents are ticked off because the just isn't fair, leaders are ticked off because the laziest kid in the club won the grand champion and even worse won grooming when everyone knew the steer jockey down the road had fitted the steer etc. etc. etc.

Hockey moms can't hold a candle to 4-H parents on achievement day !!! Neighbour lady was going to take on the ringmaster this year when her dawdling grandson got locked out of the ring after being late for five classes !!! She got into a battle with the ringmaster, the judge, the leader etc., and then wanted me to write a letter to the 4-H branch citing a grievance against the barn boss etc. I told her that nobody would have been mad at anybody if the kid had got his lazy little butt to the ring on time....

All kidding aside I have a great deal of respect for judges who will do 4-H shows, I don't always agree with the way they place the calves but they certainly are deserving of thanks and a medal for bravery !!!