NAFTA Ruling on Softwood Lumber

[madcow]

madcow, thanks for the invite for tea. Would prefer it to rum, thanks !! I will be spending time in NS and PEI. My mother was from Gays River near Truro so will spend some time in that area.

Cowman does make good points about folks from the maritimes being able to come to AB and get employment. Many of them have chosen to stay because they came here at a young age and put down roots here, but that doesn't mean that they will ever renounce the fact that they are maritimers at heart !!!

Trouble is that we in Alberta see the unfairness of continually sending money to Ottawa and having to fight tooth and nail for anything in return, sadly we tend to blame the people who continually vote for the Liberal government . Central Canada certainly does get the lions share of the pie, and that is a proven fact.

[dferguson]

Cowman; You say "the Maritimes are on the gravey train just like quebec" I hate to have to tell you but the gravey is getting pretty watery by the time it gets this far east. As it happens, the Maritime provinces all have Conservative governments at the moment And although there are some Liberal MP's I think that's true across the country. Don't blame us for putting them in perpetual power. Don' think that we profit by it. Regarding your pioneering ancestors, I dare say that my family has been in Nova Scotia twice as long as your family has been in Alberta. Not to belittle their trials and tribulations but being delivered by train to the treeless, fertile grassland where all they had to do to start a crop was drop their plow in the ground, Looks like a bit of a treat compared to being shoved onto the shore from a leaky timber boat and then clear the spruce trees off a piece of rocky hilltop. My father was the first generation to leave the hills in my family. I don't think any of the early settlers of this country had an easy time of it. None of them cornered the market on "blood, sweat and tears".

[madcow]

cowman, my favorite color is blue, and the Maritimes are all conservatively blue !! The riding I live in is federally and provincially blue,and has been for years.
I am three miles from the piece of land originally settled by my first Nova Scotian ancestor.It was granted to him when he was discharged from the British navy in Halifax N.S., after the defeat of Napoleon.They too hacked their living from a rocky tree covered hill top.Their gravy was thin then and mine is today,mine partly due to the cost of fuel,,,,which in some twisted way may be connected to the thickness of yours. I wonder if my ancestors grumbled about financing the cost and carrying the burden of building a railroad to that empty treeless plain,with no clue of the oil under the soil.I doubt it ,we're not like that.To them it was nation building,suffer and sweat a little ( and bleed) to accomplish something great. And they did !! With out it YOU might have been a maritimer . And because of it you're Canadian , EH !
Point of interest,country by color ; Central Canada(the red)pie grabber is not the blue (far east)nearly pieless, and we're not in dogpatch,we (NFLD & NS) are working on getting our fair share of the natural gas $,hope your Alberta attitude (not implying many out there have it ,I know most don't ) doesn't come with it.

[cowman]

Some how or other I come out of this as attacking the Maritimes? That is totally not my intention!
In the big picture you got screwed just as much as the west, maybe more.
What I am saying is this country Canada is not working? It isn't working for Alberta and there is a seperatist movement that is gaining strength out here! Right now it is a small voice but I believe it is finally becoming credible? No longer just the radical rednecks but some pretty solid people?
Will it ever come to anything? Who knows? Our present provincial government is fairly solid federalists? I suspect though that all we need is a "messiah" to start the ball rolling as there is a general discontent with the status quoe in Alberta?
The fact is we don't have a lot in common with a good portion of the rest of Canada? The laws and bills that the rest of Canada embraces are often very unpopular in Alberta? The NEP was very popular in most of Canada but truly hated in Alberta.
The government of Canada has decided that Quebec has a right to go if it wants to...that has to apply equally to every province I would think? Albertans will decide where that takes us?
I think you will find Albertans support the Maritimes getting their fair share of natural resources? I believe Ralph Klein stood up for them in a big way against the feds?
Here is a question: If Quebec leaves where does that leave the Maritimes? If Quebec leaves and then the west, what happens then? Would you consider setting up your own country or stay with Ontario?

[madcow]

cowman,I didn't take you as much anti-maritime as anti-Canadian,and no it's not working perfectly.I just think it's better to keep tinkering with it ,rather than junk it. I've been having trouble with a front tire on my tractor ,it's a new tire but its got a thorn in it somewhere and goes flat about every second week.I can't seem to find the thorn,and I certainly can't afford to throw it away.So I fix it ,and make a little progress, and maybe fix it again !But taking the tire off ,throwing it away and continuing with out it is not an option,is it ?. If you look back at Canadian history ,we have all been the regional flat tire at times. We patch it and move on,it's nice to think about getting out when things are rosy,,but the time 'might' come when you need the rest of us.Remember ,we're all in this together,one big pool ,so don't"pee" in your end and I'll hold it in this end.,,,,,,,,,,,.

[cowman]

Actually there was a party a few years back "Confederation of Regions Party" that had a good concept of how this country could work? I believe the Maritimes gave it a lot of support but without a doubt it was basically western based.
The concept was the federal government basically was given some powers but the regions took over everything that pertained to themselves. So the feds controlled national defence, monetary policy, etc. while the regions took over all social programs, their economy, their criminal and civil law? In fact the regions moved toward what Quebec has basically right now?
A couple of years ago some Albertans suggested Alberta put up some "firewalls" to protect Albertas interests from the federal government? Stephen Harper and Ted Morton were two of the authors.
The reaction from the rest of Canada was one of outrage! Greedy, ungrateful red necks, they cried! And yet the suggestions did not go as far as what Quebec already has!
The three main points were a provincial police force, Alberta collects all taxes and sends what they think is fair to Ottawa, and Alberta opts out of CPP and sets up a provincial program. Is that too radical?
The RCMP is well respected in Alberta, and yet they are federal police and answer to Ottawa. Therefore we have goofy gun laws being forced upon us because Toronto can't control its gangs! We need laws and police that reflect the reality in Alberta...not the slums of Toronto and Montreal.
Ottawa collects all these taxes in Alberta and doles it out as they see fit? They will collect over one billion in fuel taxes this year(from Albertans) and return ZERO dollars! Now mind you they can build lots of highways in Quebec and a bridge to PEI, but zip for Alberta?
If Klein even talks about doing Health Care Reform they immediately go ballistic and threaten to cut off the pittance they send Alberta for health care, and yet Quebec continues to flaunt the Canada Health Act with no repercussions?
How about the concept of the province collects ALL the taxes and sends Ottawa what it thinks is fair instead of what the mandarins in central Canada thinks is fair? Recently our transport minister said we need to spend some major dollars on infrastructure....well how about that $1 billion we send east each year for starters?
We go to great expense to elect 4 senators and Martin(who says he wants to end western alienation) completely ignores the democratic process and appoints four hacks! The reality is if all of the provinces could elect senators, we could in fact change how this country operates? A triple E senate is about the only thing that just might save this country because it will stop the **** of the smaller provinces by Quebec and Ontario! If a province elects them they have legitimacy...just like the house of Commons? They then have the right to stand up to the government and refuse to pass bills? It gives the hinterlands some power! As it is now the only two provinces that really matter are Quebec and Ontario?
Stephen Harper and the Conservatives are probably about the last chance "Canada" will get? I fully expect very few voters east of the Manitoba border will vote for them. Maybe a couple of seats in northern Ontario and a few in the Maritimes? Hopefully the Martin Liberals will get a large majority?
Hopefully Alberta will go solid 100% Conservative as well as Sask. and Manitoba! Maybe finally this type of scenario will wake up some westerners!
Quebec is making noise about how they need more money...guess from where? Martin needs Quebec? How hard is that to figure out?
Next time when Ottawa tries to make a revenue grab out here, I believe you will see something happening...hopefully an end to this joke called Canada!

[cowman]

cowman,I agree with much of what you have said with the exception of the out of control gangs in Toronto. That is a fact but don't ever think we don't have out of control gangs and drug problems right here in Alberta.

Read the Edmonton Journal or the Calgary Herald almost every day and you will see stories about gang related crime. Walk through any mall in Edmonton and you will see gangs of @@##%%$$ walking around that likely would stab you as soon as shake your hand.

Gun control did a number, and those that aren't law abiding are getting their weapons and in some cases building arsenals of them anyway.

Interesting article in today's Journal about some top SCHOLAR whatever the hell that is saying that Alberta should share the wealth and Peter Lougheed telling Klein to watch his back !!!

I do think that Ed Stelmach as Intergovernment Affairs Minister is a good choice to stand up to the greedy @@##$$%% in Ottawa. Alberta in 1947 was as poor as any province has ever been, until Leduc #1 roared in, and thankfully we have seen better days as each year goes buy with the exception of drought, BSE and the NEP .

I think you are correct in saying that if Ottawa even look sideways at our resources this time around it will be man the battle stations boys !!!

[cowman]

Well emerald you might be very right about the bad boys in Calgary or Edmonton! However who let these lads in? I think you might find that a lot of these guys should be back where they came from in the first place? Who controls immigration?
Of course that isn't to discount our own wonderful little bad guys...who for a good part came off the reserves? Who administers that...the province or the feds?
The gun control laws are an utter joke. They put the onus on the law abiding gun owner and do nothing to curb the outlaw? These guys do not get their guns down at the local gun shop...unless they steal them!
How about a novel concept? You do the crime with a gun you get an automatic 10 years...no parole no time for good behavior?
The hunter, the farmer, the guy who has to work in remote areas, are all paying the price for the irresponsible use of firearms...while the outlaws continue to kill and maim at their leasure?
Guns are just a tool, no different than a chainsaw! And by the way some idiots shouldn't own a chainsaw!

[cowman]

I agree that there are lots of native kids in crisis cowman but in my community there is an epidemic of drug use, mainly crystal meth,which breeds crime and violence, and you would be hard pressed to find a native in the community. Gun laws are stupid, and have not prevented one violent crime or shooting. In Edmonton and Calgary knives are the weapon of choice and they only way they are regulated is by taking away a pen knife with a half inch blade at the airport from an upstanding citizen that is harmless !!!