How BSE affected cattle marketings

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If there were lots of feedlots prepared to pay up for pre-conditioned calves we wouldnt be having this conversation because all the cow-calf guys with pre-conditioned calves--including yourself and pandiana-- would be happy with the premium they're getting. Apparently you guys do not feel you are getting enough for pre-conditioning your calves which would seem to indicate to me that there are not enough buyers prepared to pay a premium.

The fact is that I do not know any feedlots or backgrounders who do not treat the calves they buy in at some point after they reach their lots. And if you are going to do that you cannot afford to pay a premium for these bought calves. The margins are slim enough in this business without paying more than you have to for the raw product.

kpb

[cowman]

Now personally I always figure why go out and treat a problem, when you don't have one?
Sure some guys have cattle that are not healthy and they may have low level disease in their herds at all times? I also believe it is a scandal selling those little 400 lb. calves! How in the hell can they not get sick?
You take a big stout ranch calf right off his momma and he'll have enough strength to fight off a lot of diseases. These backgrounders/feedlots just didn't fall off the turnip truck? They know how to baby them through and get them on feed? If they didn't they wouldn't be in business?
Occasionally calves come through the mart where it is announced they are on the Pfizer program. I don't see them bringing a premium...to tell you the truth? Now mind you they might sell very well because they are good cattle, but I don't see anyone paying a premium just because they are on the Pfizer program! In fact the cattle that "ring the bell" are usually from an old time"reputation family", where the buyers have confidence in the people behind the cattle? Maybe some wouldn't think that is fair, but that is just the way it is. It is the buyers money to spend.

[cowman]

emerald: Froze fairly hard the last two nights. More so south of the river than at Joffre.
Froze pretty hard at Olds too. Don't know how hard it will be on the crops. Suspect the canola might be touched but the canopy is so dense I doubt it got all the way through. Barley is pretty well there and quite a bit of wheat, probably the majority in the mid-dough stage. Still looks like a bumper crop!

[pandiana]

I should clarify my position at this point kbp. I vaccinate my calves as much for my benefit as for the benefit of those that might buy from me. I am a purebred breeder and hence background most of my own calves. My death loss post-weaning is usually less than 1% and I do what I do because I think it is the right thing, not because I want you to be my calves.

On the other hand, I recently talked to a well-known feedlot operater that ranted about how, because of BSE, producers were no longer vaccinating their calves and causing wrecks for feedlot owners.
You said "I can't afford to not treat these calves at some point because they are going to get sick and die if I don't so I'm not going to pay you extra for them." I say, unvaccinated calves present a much higher risk for the first six weeks after they arrive at the feedlot because they have little immunity in the most stressful period. Having to use drugs to treat infections has been shown to be more costly in the long run than vaccination. Prophylactic use of drugs by feedlots would be the last resort measure after a major outbreak. In addition, once you have an outbreak, you risk not only death loss buy a higher number of chronics. To my way of thinking, being proactive lowers risk for all parties. Actually, I have been talking only about vaccination but the other part of pre-conditioning of course would be getting the calves on feed and water after weaning.

[grassfarmer]

And to clarify my position kpb, I think I am getting paid a premium for vaccinating my calves - everyone seems intent on convincing me I'm not!
Like Pandiana all my calves are retained beyond weaning so the benefits initial accrue to me anyway. I've never treated a calf post weaning in 4 years although I have lost one calf - a chronic bloater.

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I think I may have said this before but it seems appropriate again--you get top money for your calves because they are top calves. No other reason--they are the best calves at the auction. As cowman said, the best calves get the best price and pre-conditioning has nothing to do with it.

kpb

[cowman]

grassfarmer: Yes you probably are benifiting if you keep them...or at least managing your risk, maybe like an insurance policy?
I usually sell about half my calves in the fall...if the price is right! These cattle make me the most money...or so I believe.
The others I leave right on the cow into January or later. The smart cows boot them off fairly early but some younger cows are not too bright and keep feeding them.
I feed fairly tough in that I try to do it cheap and straw is a really big part of my winter feed. But then I get straw for the cost of baling and hauling so it costs me very little. One of the little benifits of having crop land?
Now I don't think my system would be endorsed by any of the experts, but the fact is it works for me. I don't think I've had a sick calf in a long time and I limit my vet expenses to what I might need. I believe that included a bottle of liquimiacin LA last year that has one shot taken out of it, two magnets this year, and blackleg and IBR vaccine. Don't ever call the vet anymore as I have no need too.
I often wonder why people would want to give Pfizer $14 or whatever the cost of that program is? I suppose if they think they are getting good value(read that as a profit) then it makes sense?
At one time the rage was all about Ivomec and growth hormones? I used Ivomec one time and as far as I was concerned I just wasted the $800! Now hormones without a doubt give you something...just not sure if it is worth the hassle?
I am a firm believer in a penny saved is a penny earned and I try to keep ALL my costs low, where possible! I don't think I'm quite up to CsWilsons concept of going to horses...little too raw for me...but I only spend money where I can see a profit. I don't see a profit putting a lot of unecessary drugs into my cattle. Just my opinion.