R-Calf continues

[pandiana]

I would agree, willowcreek, that each sector of the cattle industry, taken on its own, is a distinct business, and I also agree that in order to be profitable they would endeavor to pay the least for their inputs. And yes, I also believe this creates a conflict of interest situation in an organization that 'serves' all sectors of the industry.

Our agriculture organizations parallel the Agriculture industry, and unfortunately, a lot of the decision making power and lobby stays at the top where the money originates. From the top down, every sector keeps as much profit as they can in their pocket. The only trickle down is if their pocket has a hole it it.

I do believe, on the other hand, that the associations attempt to fairly represent their generic members. The strongest voice will be heard first. It's up to the members to change things they don't like in a free enterprise democratic society.

[JD4ME]

"Primum non nocere" First do no harm, that should be the motto of all industry groups. R-calf included, they'd cut off their foot to save their toes thats the level of the logic employed there.

[Joe-2]

Willowcreek, How about it? Name one long term objective,that is to the benefit of grassroots producers, that R-calf has been succesful in accomplishing that would justify the millions of dollars they have raked in through membership dues and rollover calf auctions. Just one.

[Willowcreek]

Joe-2 The #1 thing that R-CALF has proved to the cattle producers of the US is the impact imported cattle and beef have on the US market...They won an anti-dumping ruling in 1999 against Canada, but were unable to prove the effect it had on prices..That proof now exists...Since the announcement of the border opening, prices on fall calves contracted locally for Oct- Nov delivery has dropped $50-100 per head- culls have dropped $5 just on the knowledge of which way the USDA may head and the speculation of OTM beef being allowed....

I spent the afternoon with two of the major cattle buyers from my area- that I have worked with for years and trust... they both say that if OTM beef is allowed in, US cull cattle will automatically drop $10- $15 and possibly as much as by 50%- if live OTM cattle are allowed in, it will be a disaster......Which I know means little to Canadians as Murgen has stated on ranchers.net that Canadians only cull 5% a year- but in the US that cull figure is closer to 15- 30%- which makes a huge impact to a ranch income......

[grassfarmer]

willowcreek, "but in the US that cull figure is closer to 15- 30%" - sounds like it's time the US started importing some decent Canadian beef genetics. How can a herd need to cull 30% of their animals in a year? do you ranch holsteins?

[Joe-2]

Hahah! Willowcreek, cull cow prices are ALWAYS lower in the fall.Wait until the real fall run starts before chirping off about feeder prices.
You failed to show us 1 thing that R-calf has accomplished which would justify the millions of dollars they have coaxed out of their membership.
My bitch is NOT with the rank and file members of R-calf. It is with their snake-oil salesman leadership that cons people like you out of your money. Are Leo, Bill, Dennis, Kathleen, and Herman really "grassroots producers" in the same sense that you are??
That is what I find so offensive about R-calf. These "slick-Willy" type people swindling real people,such as yourself, out of their hard earned money, and delivering absolutely nothing in return other than a request for even more money.
That's how I see's it any how!!

[Willowcreek]

grassfarmer-- Much of this country is much more wide open- with little or no fencing...10,000 to 25,000 acre pastures are not out of the normal- some are much larger-- with water and grass sometimes far between each other which means if you have a 5-6% cull for being open it is pretty good- then add in those culled for age, bad bags, lumps, eye spots, disposition and being a below average weight calf producer it is easy to get to above 15%...Then if you are using good bulls, your genetics should be improving every year so many keep another percentage to improve the herd quality and output...In fact the last I saw was that Harlan Hughes and most of the so called "cattle raising experts" were recommending a minimum of 15%- if for no other reason than to promote the quality and production of your herd- and to get rid of the culls before they get so old they lose value.....

[FRENCHMAN]

Oldtimer.... Joe-2 The #1 thing that R-CALF has proved to the cattle producers of the US is the impact imported cattle and beef have on the US market...They won an anti-dumping ruling in 1999 against Canada, but were unable to prove the effect it had on prices..That proof now exists


Frenchman ..Ot you proved nothing , you had record amts of Canuk and other beef crossing the line and record prices..



Its all gloom and doom with you r-calfers.Speculation.

[Willowcreek]

Frenchman-"Its all gloom and doom with you r-calfers.Speculation."

After you've been in the cow business a few years Frenchman, you will realize that much of the entire cattle industry is tied around "speculation".

And some of those that have "speculated" quite successfully for 40-50 years are the ones I like to listen to and continue learning from......

[cowman]

I often wonder why the cattle producers in Montana are the really big push behind R-CALF and the fight to keep Alberta cattle out of the US?
The whole deal about BSE has been a smokescreen to promote their protectionist leanings. Nothing more than a load of BS and most R-CALF members will admit that...especially now when the US is on an equal BSE status as Canada!
Montana is basically the "dogpatch" of the United States! They don't have a lot of options when it comes to cattle...it is basically sell the off to somewhere else to be fed and slaughtered? I heard a little blurb that even the small abbatoires were being shut down because they were basically so unsanitary that the meat wasn't fit for human consumption!
Maybe it is time for some R-CALFERS to wake up and look north to the big feedlots and packing houses in Canada and consider looking at it as an opportunity, rather than be jealous?
Alberta and Montana should be moving closer rather than erecting all these stupid roadblocks to prosperity?
I find it frustrating that certain Americans are so blind to the opportunities? I don't know why that is but I do suspect it has to do with this patriotic crap they are taught from day one! The truth is the Alberta cattleman and Montana cattleman have a lot more in common than they do with the eastern liberals in Ottawa or Washington DC?

[Willowcreek]

cowman- Remember it was only a short time ago that Albertans and Canadians were telling Montanans that their cattle were diseased and that they didn't want them- cattle that ran side by side separated only by a fence... Then after years and millions $ of research and testing showing a minimal problem with Montana cattle the border was still not fully opened-was still restricted- But after the Canada BSE-in a political effort to get the US to open the border all the disease problems with Montana cattle miraculously disappeared...

But we're supposed to forget and overlook little things like that!!!!!!

And now we're supposed to stand up and cheer to welcome in all Canadian cattle with a "minimal" disease problem that has the capability of crippling the cattle industry......

[Willowcreek]

Willowcreek when your fellow americans are put out of work because the packing plants can't continue to operate it would seem to me that you would perhaps forget your vendetta against Alberta cattle and do what is in the best interest of all beef producers, and people whose livelihood is dependent on the beef industry in the US vs turf protection for your own little corner of the country.
I think that the health issue you referenced was likely Blue Toungue although I might be wrong.

When I look at how the cattle industry on both sides of the border is integrated it makes no sense what so ever to have this protectionist attitude on either side.

Hopefully once more slaughter capacity is on stream in Alberta we can stop worrying about getting live cattle across the border and concentrate on off shore sales of our product.