R-Calf continues

[Willowcreek]

Joe-2 The #1 thing that R-CALF has proved to the cattle producers of the US is the impact imported cattle and beef have on the US market...They won an anti-dumping ruling in 1999 against Canada, but were unable to prove the effect it had on prices..That proof now exists...Since the announcement of the border opening, prices on fall calves contracted locally for Oct- Nov delivery has dropped $50-100 per head- culls have dropped $5 just on the knowledge of which way the USDA may head and the speculation of OTM beef being allowed....

I spent the afternoon with two of the major cattle buyers from my area- that I have worked with for years and trust... they both say that if OTM beef is allowed in, US cull cattle will automatically drop $10- $15 and possibly as much as by 50%- if live OTM cattle are allowed in, it will be a disaster......Which I know means little to Canadians as Murgen has stated on ranchers.net that Canadians only cull 5% a year- but in the US that cull figure is closer to 15- 30%- which makes a huge impact to a ranch income......

[grassfarmer]

willowcreek, "but in the US that cull figure is closer to 15- 30%" - sounds like it's time the US started importing some decent Canadian beef genetics. How can a herd need to cull 30% of their animals in a year? do you ranch holsteins?

[Joe-2]

Hahah! Willowcreek, cull cow prices are ALWAYS lower in the fall.Wait until the real fall run starts before chirping off about feeder prices.
You failed to show us 1 thing that R-calf has accomplished which would justify the millions of dollars they have coaxed out of their membership.
My bitch is NOT with the rank and file members of R-calf. It is with their snake-oil salesman leadership that cons people like you out of your money. Are Leo, Bill, Dennis, Kathleen, and Herman really "grassroots producers" in the same sense that you are??
That is what I find so offensive about R-calf. These "slick-Willy" type people swindling real people,such as yourself, out of their hard earned money, and delivering absolutely nothing in return other than a request for even more money.
That's how I see's it any how!!

[Willowcreek]

grassfarmer-- Much of this country is much more wide open- with little or no fencing...10,000 to 25,000 acre pastures are not out of the normal- some are much larger-- with water and grass sometimes far between each other which means if you have a 5-6% cull for being open it is pretty good- then add in those culled for age, bad bags, lumps, eye spots, disposition and being a below average weight calf producer it is easy to get to above 15%...Then if you are using good bulls, your genetics should be improving every year so many keep another percentage to improve the herd quality and output...In fact the last I saw was that Harlan Hughes and most of the so called "cattle raising experts" were recommending a minimum of 15%- if for no other reason than to promote the quality and production of your herd- and to get rid of the culls before they get so old they lose value.....

[FRENCHMAN]

Oldtimer.... Joe-2 The #1 thing that R-CALF has proved to the cattle producers of the US is the impact imported cattle and beef have on the US market...They won an anti-dumping ruling in 1999 against Canada, but were unable to prove the effect it had on prices..That proof now exists


Frenchman ..Ot you proved nothing , you had record amts of Canuk and other beef crossing the line and record prices..



Its all gloom and doom with you r-calfers.Speculation.

[Willowcreek]

Frenchman-"Its all gloom and doom with you r-calfers.Speculation."

After you've been in the cow business a few years Frenchman, you will realize that much of the entire cattle industry is tied around "speculation".

And some of those that have "speculated" quite successfully for 40-50 years are the ones I like to listen to and continue learning from......

[cowman]

I often wonder why the cattle producers in Montana are the really big push behind R-CALF and the fight to keep Alberta cattle out of the US?
The whole deal about BSE has been a smokescreen to promote their protectionist leanings. Nothing more than a load of BS and most R-CALF members will admit that...especially now when the US is on an equal BSE status as Canada!
Montana is basically the "dogpatch" of the United States! They don't have a lot of options when it comes to cattle...it is basically sell the off to somewhere else to be fed and slaughtered? I heard a little blurb that even the small abbatoires were being shut down because they were basically so unsanitary that the meat wasn't fit for human consumption!
Maybe it is time for some R-CALFERS to wake up and look north to the big feedlots and packing houses in Canada and consider looking at it as an opportunity, rather than be jealous?
Alberta and Montana should be moving closer rather than erecting all these stupid roadblocks to prosperity?
I find it frustrating that certain Americans are so blind to the opportunities? I don't know why that is but I do suspect it has to do with this patriotic crap they are taught from day one! The truth is the Alberta cattleman and Montana cattleman have a lot more in common than they do with the eastern liberals in Ottawa or Washington DC?

[Willowcreek]

cowman- Remember it was only a short time ago that Albertans and Canadians were telling Montanans that their cattle were diseased and that they didn't want them- cattle that ran side by side separated only by a fence... Then after years and millions $ of research and testing showing a minimal problem with Montana cattle the border was still not fully opened-was still restricted- But after the Canada BSE-in a political effort to get the US to open the border all the disease problems with Montana cattle miraculously disappeared...

But we're supposed to forget and overlook little things like that!!!!!!

And now we're supposed to stand up and cheer to welcome in all Canadian cattle with a "minimal" disease problem that has the capability of crippling the cattle industry......

[Willowcreek]

Willowcreek when your fellow americans are put out of work because the packing plants can't continue to operate it would seem to me that you would perhaps forget your vendetta against Alberta cattle and do what is in the best interest of all beef producers, and people whose livelihood is dependent on the beef industry in the US vs turf protection for your own little corner of the country.
I think that the health issue you referenced was likely Blue Toungue although I might be wrong.

When I look at how the cattle industry on both sides of the border is integrated it makes no sense what so ever to have this protectionist attitude on either side.

Hopefully once more slaughter capacity is on stream in Alberta we can stop worrying about getting live cattle across the border and concentrate on off shore sales of our product.

[cowman]

Actually Willowcreek that whole scenario is sort of a red herring? The facts were, at the time, the Canadian feedlots and packers couldn't compete to buy your calves anyway?...Not when our dollar was worth 63 cents and our packing houses were not competitive with the big American packing houses?
I believe you could always export cattle into Canada if they had a simple test? Sort of like the test you required for Canadian breeding stock entering the US, for Bangs?
I suspect when the big packers get rolling in Canada you might find there is a whole lot of interest in Montana calves? The fact is we have some very cheap feed up here, a better position on the dollar, and an efficient feeder and packer sector? I suspect the cheapest place to feed cattle in North America might be Alberta this year? Right this minute there is a lot of American money in the marts up here...and these cattle are going to be fed right here! Now why is that?
When the game playing stops, you might just be surprized who is buying your Montana calves? The Alberta feeder can do it cheaper than the feedlot in the cornbelt! Start to think "North American market" instead of "US market" because that is where this is heading...and you will make more money!

[Willowcreek]

cowman- You are right about the way things should be-- but they never will be...Too many splits created on BOTH sides by the Big Business money going to politicians-the Dows, Monsantos, Tysons, Cargills, CWB, etc-- involves lumber, cattle, steel, grains, pharmaceuticals, chemicals and sprays- now I hear the big one is generic Ivomec- we buy it in states for $90- costs Canadians $500, so they have been coming down in droves to buy it- but now big money has influenced Canadian politicians to outlaw Canadian ranchers from even bringing it in...I hear even your so-called "cattlemens groups" like CCA are supporting the ban- how much money was stuffed in their pockets to eat their own?

[silverback]

Why does willow never seem too worried about losing packers in the US?? He always changes the subject to something else. Maybe R-Calf is building their own plant for their members with their money? He also whines about the big corporations, but what is he actually doing about it?

[cowman]

Well willowcreek, I didn't think they got that rule passed? But I do agree that we need to get some of these things harmonized, if we are going to have a level playing field.
I actually think the Monsanto's/Dows of the world are really more interested in opening borders than closing them? After all they are international corporations not US or Canadian corporations...and their market is the world?
The fact is you have BSE...just like us? And in reality we can't harm your BSE status or the health of your American cow herd?
You should just give up all those old protectionist R-CALF adages and admit you don't like to compete with Canadian cattle...Hey we can understand that?
It is too bad the Montana cattleman decided that Alberta cattle were the problem and did their very best to alienate the western Canadian producer. I suspect there were probably lots of cow/calf producers up here who could have identified with your message of packer/retailer control, transparent pricing, even COOL! However by your short sighted views you have probably alienated at least a generation of farmers up here and turned a lot of potential allys into enemies! Your group has done more to spread anti-American feelings than any other in the Ag community!
This silliness really should stop? R-CALF is not going to win this one and you really should be trying to mend fences rather than continuing to beat a dead horse? Hopefully someday the leaders of R-CALF will see the light...or at least get out of the way and let some more rational people run the show!

[Willowcreek]

silverback and emerald-- I don't buy into all the propaganda put out by AMI and the Packers on the slaughterhouses--most is just BS to scare people... A couple of old plants have closed and they make a big deal-but they say nothing about the new ones being opened and the several online to be built...And much of it is a shift toward where they now have access to cows...And few Americans are losing jobs- most employees are aliens, many illegal who end up more a detriment on the community than they are an asset..They can slip across the line north and work at Canadas new plants- and then Canadians can pay for their care.

[cowman]

Actually Willowcreek, we have enough up here already...thank you very much!
What can you do? Not many Canadians or Americans for that matter are all that keen to work for poor wages in a hell hole?
I would suspect you are right about the packers mothballing old inefficient plants? And without a doubt if they see an opportunity to build a new one where the cattle are, they will do it? I would suggest to you the longer you keep our cows out the more they will look at the possibility of building a cow plant in Canada? The ideal situation for a packer would be if you Americans allow cow beef in but not live cattle? Then they can duplicate with cows what they did for the last two years with fats?
Tyson and Cargill made a literal killing up here and you are doing your best to help them continue the gravy train! I often wonder if they send donations into R-CALF? After all R-CALF has made them a ton of money in the last two years!