grassfarmer?

[cowman]

You know I've never been able to convince myself to buy a bale processer, just couldn't justify the price tag...but then I have access to basically free straw and don't worry too much about how much I use. Just roll the hay out with the front end loader and they eat all of it.
I wonder also what the upkeep is on a bale processer ...seems to be a lot of really beat up ones at auctions.
I also wonder how much a feed wagon might cost in terms of actual cash and upkeep? I thought the idea was supposed to be "less iron" not more? I know you can get some pretty fancy feed wagons at some pretty fancy prices! Do you have to keep them in a heated building or do they ever freeze up? One more question? Does silage ever freeze up and you get big frozen chunks?

[grassfarmer]

Well I maybe bought a bale processor too soon - before I'd seen enough alternate ways to do things. It is a useful machine though although the oil pipes give trouble when it's 40 below! The Schuler silage wagon is a real simple and cheap machine , very low maintanence. My total investment in these was $16,000 for a new bale pro and used silage wagon - besides my tractor they are my only machinery.
Another role for the bale pro is blowing out a pile of straw to mix with the silage - it beats paying $5 a bale to custom tub grind it.

[cswilson]

What do you think it costs you to grind a bale with your bale processor-we try and buy a field of straw right next to our winter pasture. I hire a guy to haul and grind them with his bale processor. Usually do a weeks worth at a time.I'd actually like to custom winter a thousand cows or so-so I coould get all my pastures covered in manure very winter-sure it would more than double grass production.

[kpb]

cowman, I do not own a bale processor and, like you, I have never been able to justify the cost. I have over the years owned a number of silage wagons and currently have two silage feed trucks--one to use and one for back-up. They were bought for a total of $20,000 together used. The thing about a pull-type silage wagon with lots of animals to feed is that you are either hooking and unhooking all the time, which can be a pain at 40 below or you are using one tractor to load and one to pull.

I generally feed quite a few calves here in the winter so went to the trucks several years ago. Everything works ok but the chain system at the back breaks down sometimes and the dog clutch to discharge the feed is a weak point. Also, eventually, the bottoms tend to rust out.

Silage can definitely freeze which is a pain because it sometimes results in a jam at the discharge and having to fork out a couple of tons of feed out of the wagon to get at the jam. It's really hot coming out of the pit but if something happens and it sits in the truck for a while it will freeze. A couple of years ago I bought some canola silage from a guy with a bad crop. It was ok but very greasy and used to lodge in the wagon and bung everything up. I mixed it with the regular barley silage and the cows ate it ok.

The biggest problem this year with operating any of the wagons, tractors or processors will be the fuel cost. And, if you want to make life easy for yourself and keep them in a heated quonset you'll hve big heating bills. That's why I was thinking a week or so ago about backgrounding. The margins are going to be very slim this year anyway (look at 500 pound feeders versus, say 850 pounders). And then figure in your grain, silage and then big fuel bills, it looks like a no-go to me.


kpb

[grassfarmer]

What does it cost me to grind a bale with a bale pro?- the easy answer is nothing because I have the machine anyway but of course that's not a true cost. The alternative is a cash cost of $5 a bale to get a tub grinder in so I reckon I'm still cheaper than that. Sometimes I don't mix the silage and straw, I feed straw one day and silage the next - that works too. The combination of the two machines lets me buy and utilise any feeds available. I too would be keen to custom feed cows - unfortunately most folks round here winter calve and I'm not volunteering to do that at any price.
You guys that feed with bale trucks, how does it go when you get a heavy snowfall? I'd be a bit nervous in this climate without a FWA and loader to clear a path through big drifts.

[cswilson]

Grassfarmer now don't be silly I bet your cost is a heck of alot closer to $5 than you care to admit-if we get a bad snowfall I hire a 4WD tractor and dozer to clear m,e some feeding paths. Also we'll sometimes put a wek or so feed out in a storm field so if things get to bad we can just turn cows into it.

[grassfarmer]

So if you have enough feeders to justify a silage truck how do you bed that many kpb? I helped out on a purebred operation the first winter I was here and they didn't have a bale pro either. We spent lots of time hauling small squares into corrals to bed cows and calves - hauled the bales in 28 at a time in the loader bucket of a 120hp CASE and had the tractor running while we shook the bales out by hand - not real efficient in my view either!
I actually like to build a good bedding pack for youngstock because I want the organic matter. I pile the manure up in May and turn it over in August prior to spreading in October. Now there is an added cost to this but it is also making a value added product. We are spreading a dry, almost compost material and there is a lot less to haul than trucking fresh manure.

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer wouldn't that depend on how wet the summer is ? Rain like we have had this year tends to make the bedding pack stay fairly moist, and it won't be composted enough to kill weedseeds or pathogens by only turning it once over the summer.
I agree that hauling that many squre bales and distributing them by hand doesn't seem very efficient. I usually pick up a few square bales for the barn so I don't have to start the tractor to feed into calving pens if there are only a few cows in the corral at a time, but I do bed the shelters by dumping straw into them with the grapple and forking it around, this is only during calving.

[grassfarmer]

I want to keep a certain amount of moisture in it certainly, if it gets too dry it "burns" up the organic matter in it. I don't want to see black or white over heated material in the piles. Building up in long rows in May and then stacking in tall heaps in August works for me in wet or dry years.

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I don't bed the feeders heavily at all but when I do I use big round bales of straw and a front end loader and just roll them out.

kpb

[cowman]

I am sure a bale processor might pay for itself if you are buying straw and it helps to spread it out better and therfore you use less? I really like the idea of the grain/pellet tank on some models. I suspect you could feed certain rations and maybe actually justify it?
But of course every convenience comes with a cost...and that is okay as long as you recognize that? I have a neighbor who has about 25 cows...and a new bale processor! He also has a really good squeeze/tub set up that is state of the art! Obviously he is not going for that "low cost producer of the year" award!
I'm not as "low cost" as some here as I pretty much do everything with a FWA tractor(Kubota) and yes I keep it in a heated shop! Maybe not the most efficient method but then I use the shop everyday for other things so it has to be heated anyway.
I have often considered buying a bale processor as a way of saving time and money. Haul three bales out at a time instead of one makes sense to me? Maybe I'll have to do some creative bookeeping to justify one!

[farmers_son]

Just some comments about owning machinery. There is too much emphasis on the depreciation and not enough on the capital cost. A 2 bale hay shedder purchased new in 1989 for $9500 could still be worth $5000 today. That is a depreciation cost of $281 per year. Most people could afford that. As our dollar increases in value the value of our used machinery should start decreasing faster although rising steel costs have hidden some of that up to now.

The bigger concern is the opportunity cost or capital cost of the shredder because that $9500 could have been invested in cows or even put towards land that would generate cash flows or increased asset value. Assuming a 5% return, that $9500 in 1989 would be over $20,500 today if it had been invested in land or cattle. At a 7.5% return to capital we would be looking at a future value of $30,000 16 years later.

Before we decide to purchase machinery or if owning machinery is better than hiring custom the emphasis needs to be on how to avoid those costs altogether as there are better uses for that money.