Expansion?

[grassfarmer]

Max, that's a great comment about surrounding yourself with positive people. I recently was at a Grey Wooded Forage Association event and took along a friend that had never been before - he was amazed at the crowd as they were so different from any ag gathering he had ever attended in Western Canada. The age profile is the first difference - younger crowd with many producers in their 20s and 30s. Many females in evidence too, again some in their twenties. Overall the mood was one of optimism, how much could be achieved in future with better practises and management. Nowhere did we hear the usual coffee shop doom and gloom. Very much a glass half full crowd - and you do come back from such events feeling rejuvinated.

[cowman]

Well I hope all these optomists have some money so they can get out there and buy out all the pessimists!
There are a lot of older guys just chomping at the bit to quit and retire, so hope some of these young guys are willing to step up to the plate and buy?
Hopefully we'll see a good bred cow market this fall. I suspect if cows can get back into that $1200 range you'll see all kinds of movement?
In my opinion that is a good thing? Quite often when you go to a auction mart sale it is like visiting the old folks home!
I wonder if these young producers will have the finances to buy out the older generation or will good old Dad have to give it to them? Maybe we need to import a few more ornery rich Scots? LOL
The boy has intentions of holding back more heifers and feeding them for next years bred market. He thinks there is a pentup demand for young breeding stock as there haven't been a lot of heifers retained the last couple of years? I think it really depends if this darned cull cow market gets going? There are a lot of old cows around that should have gone to MacDonalds a while ago.

[grassfarmer]

The biggest opportunity I see coming is for some of the older producers to rent their land out to the youngsters starting out. That makes so much more sense - very often the older folks are fed up farming but don't want to sell up and retire to town. They would be happy to stay in their own house, surrounded by the countryside and all their friends and neighbours. It's a matter of working out rental rates and the youngsters maybe being prepared to live in a trailer or travel to the farm every day.

[Cattleman]

The problem with that grassfarmer is that youngsters still can't get started as they can't afford the crazy rental rates. Especailly if they have to upgrade equipment etc. To many people out there with deep pockets and everything paid for who just pick up a few more quarters to justify all the iron they run.

[grassfarmer]

The future I see for these new entrants doesn't involve metal so they shouldn't be hampered by having to upgrade equipment or bid against plow jockeys wanting to "justify" their latest toy by renting more acres.
It's about beef and it's about grass, period. If a young guy rented an existing cattle farm, set it up to summer graze using a few electric fences and piped water and ran custom yearlings or cow/calf pairs for the grazing season he should be able to under bid anyone farming metal to run cows - and make money. Do that in the summer and work on rigs in winter if necessary - bypass all the high costs of ownership and maintaining cattle through our northern winter.
I think there are opportunities for this type of deal in my area.

[cowman]

I doubt many established farmers would want to rent their land out for something like this. Too chancy you'd ever get paid! At the end of the day who is going to pay to get the grass broke up? Some very serious costs involved there?
Rents are, in reality, too high for the farmer actually trying to make a decent profit? And yet the landlord needs something too or why would he want to hold the assett?
I wonder why anyone who is serious about farming(whether grass or crops) would really want to pay $80/acre when they could go to Sask. or Man. or even northern AB, and buy land for two or three years rent?
Farming for young people really doesn't make any sense unless you marry it or inherit it! I believe a young person could make a lot more doing just about anything else?

[grassfarmer]

Ha Ha Cowman - you are too funny!
Coming the same old, old story that grass is a waste of land and no-one should do it. Of course grass growing is totally wrong and it would have to be seeded back to a monoculture of high input, non profitable, cereals once the crazy grass farmer had gone bust.
You've been talking down the beef sector, wanting to cull the national herd, backing the US and backing the packers ever since I found Agriville several years ago - and at the same time expanding your family operation to include more cows and even grass management. It's a very old Scottish trick - talk the industry down and try and get others to leave so you can pick up their land. We are a shrewd people!

[cowman]

grassfarmer: Quit telling all my secrets LOL!
But seriously...I do believe growing grain on the better land is the way to go. I still believe that you can mix the two(grass and grain) in a profitable venture...despite poor grain prices!
Straw and after math grazing can add so much to the bottom line...in my humble opinion?
Yes, grain is a dog! Mainly because our useless government decided they were too cheap to support the Canadian grain farmer and fight the grain wars!
I'm still learning some things about grass. I still believe you need to break up these heavy clay/loam soils every once in awhile and replant?
Hey, I'll be the first to admit I don't have all the answers! I do know I enjoy seeing a very well grown crop of barley or canola! I really enjoy just walking through a good crop and checking for things like moisture or disease or how well it is filling...and I don't grow any grain!
I even like to run the combine or grain truck for my cousin and I especially enjoy a bit of field work...well at least for a day or so!
My old Dad was 100% farmer! Said he was just in heaven out cultivating or seeding or harvesting! He told me that was as about as close to God as he would ever get in this world! Well whatever!
I wonder...did you grow any crops in Scotland?

[grassfarmer]

I've never grown crops to sell - only to feed livestock. Kale,fodder **** and oats for silage. I understand any producers enjoyment of rearing a good crop whether it be grain, grass or calves - I just can't see how it can apply to a grain crop and not a grass crop? What problem do you see that makes you think you need to "break up these heavy clay/loam soils every once in awhile and replant?"

[cowman]

grassfarmer: As I've said before I'm still learning a lot about grass? The land we fenced off and cell grazed seems to have worked fairly well. It seems in normal grazing situations around here the grass has a tendency to revert to a native fescue(June grass) which really doesn't produce a heavy volume. I guess we'll see if the pasture mix in the cells retains its diversity or if the fescue pushes out the other grass?
I don't see us taking this cell grazing much further as it simply takes too much time! Let me explain that? If we are busy doing something it is a pain to go and make sure everything is going fine. It is so much easier to kick them into a big pasture and check them once a week! I am especially not impressed with these little electric fences! Don't like them, never will!
Nothing more frustrating than having to come home to put the darned cows back in when you have a job to do somewhere else? Wind blows a tree over onto a fence, two cows get fighting, darned moose spooks them through the fence...that sort of thing!

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, " I guess we'll see if the pasture mix in the cells retains its diversity or if the fescue pushes out the other grass?" - that is entirely in your control. There is a lot more to managed grazing than setting up electric fences. Any pasture that declines in productivity and in species diversity is a pasture poorly managed(severe drought excepted) The challenge is to learn enough about grass and grass management to move your pastures the other way. I am constantly amazed at how little I know about grass management - it is a never ending quest for knowledge. 2004 and 2005 have been a great opportunity to improve pasture health and diversity in Central Alberta.
The time issue depends how much money you want to make by improving grass management. I am currently grazing off some pastures that were monocultures of 1/8th inch high bluegrass with patches of wild strawberries and *****toes in 2000. Under a previous zero management system they had probably yielded 20AUDs per acre annually. Today these same pastures are knee deep fescue,bluegrass,smooth brome, timothy, red-clover, sweet clover, alfalfa which easily yields 80AUDs per acre. Intensive grazing management has been the only change here, no re-seeding, no fertiliser, no manure hauling.
In this case it takes me 30 minutes to move fences every second day making 4 acre paddocks. Valueing an AUD on this excellent pasture at $1 means my 30 minutes spent has earned me $240 (60 AUD's extra on 4 acres) What are you doing that earns you more than $480 an hour?

[grassfarmer]

I'm with cowman on this one, moving fences daily isn't my favorite way of spending the grazing season.
Moving cows from pasture to pasture once a week or so, where they have a reliable source of water, minerals in leech proof containers in all pastures and good fences works well here.
The local general store is selling some dinky little push in fence posts for electric fences, I had a chuckle with the feedlot fellow down the road the other day, about how long that fence would last if one bull decided to rub against it for half a minute before he got a shock !!!

Good for you grassfarmer for using grazing methods that work in your operation, whatever works is what producers should use. There isn't a right way or a wrong way to do things. Nobody knows more than the other person about grazing management, and what I do here has worked on this farm for over 30 years.