Expansion?

[grassfarmer]

Emrald1, You can have a "reliable source of water, minerals in leech proof containers in all pastures and good fences" under a daily move system too.
Bulls rubbing on electric fences isn't an issue - it's a misunderstanding of how electric fences work. They are a phsycologic barrier not a physical one - I have run seperate bull/cow groups seperated with a single strand high tensile fence. I've had more trouble with neighbours trashing good 4 strand barb fences than I've had with electric.
I don't know if the comment "Nobody knows more than the other person about grazing management" is scolding me for being a smart@$# it certainly is a nonsensical comment as there are huge differences between peoples knowledge of grazing management. I don't pretend to know it all but I do read, listen and learn from people that have a far greater knowledge than me. I was aiming to pass on what I have learnt to Cowman who asks questions about grazing management usually prefaced by "I don't know much about grass management but.."

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer, I have been in the cattle business for over 30 years and am learning something new every day. If you took offense to my comment about nobody knowing more than the other person thats your issue. I don't like to chastise others for doing something differently than I do, whether its raising a certain breed of cattle or pasturing cattle. I have never yet met anyone who knows everything....everyone that I meet in the cattle business has some valuable information to share, yourself included. That does not mean that you or I know everything !!!

[silverback]

It is amazing how this web site has turned into a gab fest for 4 or 5 people.

Grassfarmer, when you get a minute from your slapping yourself on the back for being the best cowboy in Canada ( and not a stupid crop guy), can you tell us how you needed to increase your stocking rates and AUM's so that you could pay for your internet time? I cannot think that some of the people on this site actually work for a living!

I am also convinced that F-S is a government mole that is trying to convince us all that big government is a good thing.

Have a good night all! (However many as that is?)

[silverback]

silverback, don't underestimate the fact that some of us do work very hard and put in long hours to do so, if you notice the times of some of the posts on here you will recognize that some people get half a days work done pretty darn early in the mornings !!! I enjoy all posts on this site whether or not I agree with them or not...and find that more people are on the site in the winter and times when they are not out working for a living or harvesting or calving the cows or whatever.....

Gotta go because I have a 20 hour day ahead of me tomorrow, working for a living !!!! Just kidding !!!

[cowman]

Well silverback, time is like money? We get to spend it how we see fit. Maybe it would be better to sit in the bar or casino or chase a ball around a golf course?
There aren't a lot of people on this old website anymore, and despite grassfarmers misgivings about me I do enjoy his posts for the information and his off the wall way of looking at things! He also has a wee bit of humour although he usually tries to hide it in righteous indignation!
Got to agree farmers son is a government agent LOL! Well he has his ideas and they reflect what the majority of Albertans probably think? I find he is very informative and very dogged in his pursuit of his opinions?
Emerald has some pretty strong opinions herself and I can just bet she was a tough lady to deal with when she sat on municipal council?
In the big picture though the value of any discussion is that you learn how others think? I am a firm believer every person I meet or talk to has something to teach me...whether it be a millionaire or the bum in the street! In fact the bums' story might be a lot more interesting?

[nicolaas]

Something about intensive grazing with no inputs is bothering me. A question for grass farmer, how sustainable do you think intensive grazing actually is? You are continually clipping the grass with out putting anything back in the soil. Sure the grass is rested before it is grazed, but if you are getting that many grazing days off your land without putting any "new" material back into the soil, one would think you would wear it out after a while. Sure they crap on the land, but that "crap" was already part of the soil at one time, and you are actually taking matter away from your soil everytime you sell one of your cows to a feedlot. In the short term intensive grazing with no fertilizer/fiber inputs may work well, but how about the long term?

[grassfarmer]

nicolaas, I should maybe clarify when I talk about intensive grazing I mean management intensive grazing with the emphasis on the management part. Under this system we don't continually clip - the pastures here only get grazed once or twice in the year. This allows a large volume of plant material to accumulate before each grazing so the cows always trample quite a bit back into the ground along with a lot of manure. It puts more back into the land than conventional grazing because you are producing more grass hence you can graze more cows. At the higher production levels we are currently using some fertiliser but there are other ways to buy in fertility other than as commercial nitrogen - feeding bought in forages on pasture for example. The amount of nutrients leaving the farm in the calves isn't all that great I don't think - they are mostly water. The best proof that it is sustainable was to look back to the days of the buffalo when the prairies were reckoned to be in climax stage of vegetation with no inputs from man - only intensive rotational grazing by huge numbers of buffalo performing short duration heavy grazing sheperded by packs of predators. That is the system we are trying to mimic.

[grassfarmer]

cowman, 'strong opinions' who ???? Little old me ????? I guess I do have some pretty strong opinions and I did have some tough decisions to make when I was on council. Have never shied away from them, figured that if I was going to take the taxpayers money I was darn well not going to sit on the fence when it came to making decisions, even though it was obvious that I would tick somebody off no matter how I voted !!!

I too, enjoy all the posts on this site, and don't really think that Farmers_son is a government agent......he and grassfarmer have their views on many things and most of the time I agree with them, but one thing for sure I don't like to see any posts that become nasty toward anyone.

[silverback]

I really don't mean to be "nasty", but when the post's on this site are dominated by one guy or one opinion, I just have to say something sometimes.

Grassfarmer seems to be doing some things right - for his area and his situation, but I really get the impression that it is his way or stupidity. If he is making as much profit as he says - excellent. Soon the rest of us will figure it out and do the same thing. However, not everyone lives in the best place for growing grass.

[cowman]

I do believe there are areas that are more suited to an intensive type of system, without a doubt. The fact is the land can only support a certain level of production no matter what system you use?
So if you live on the prairie with low rainfall and maybe poorer soil then you can't really expect it to produce like the parkland, no matter what system you use?
It is always nice to have the luxury of being able to rest land and do all the things right? However quite often that isn't reality as the piper has to be paid, sort of thing? Not much sense doing it right if you can't pay the bills?
There has got to be an effort by all society if they intend for the farmer to be "the keeper of the land"? Unfortunately that isn't happening and won't happen? The farmer is left to his own devices to try to sc**** out a living and survive...thus we have this constant struggle to mine the land for every dime available? Modern technology has kept the farmer one step ahead of the poor house, but just barely! Now it would seem that modern technolgy is even failing us and the cost/price squeeze has pretty well caught up to us?
No solution. We just hang on as long as we can.

[cowman]

silverback I wasn't refering to you when I said 'nasty'. I agree that anyone that is succeeding with certain methods on their operation should obviously continue but that does not mean that their way is the right way for the rest of us, or that we are all inept idiots because we do not subscribe to anothers way of thinking.

I get a bit out of patience when folks seem to be preaching 'down' to others vs sharing some of their experiences and knowledge. There is a wide variety of knowledge among the folks that use this site, and I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

[farmers_son]

Silverback: Just to put your mind at ease, I am not a government mole. Sorry to disappoint you but I am just another farmer like everyone else.

At least you did not think I worked for the packers. LOL.