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Fair Market Beef Lawsuit

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    #11
    Willowcreek: It is highly unlikely that NAFTA will not survive. I would point out that our mutual frustration with NAFTA stems from different causes, mine because NAFTA has been unresponsive to seeing normal trade resume with beef and live cattle and no doubt your perspective would be that NAFTA has not kept those darned Canuck cattle on the right side of the border.

    On the subject of trade, although Canada and the U.S. are exchanging words over softwood lumber at least prominent Americans have not as yet not threatened to shoot our Prime Minister. I am thinking our government should be giving the same amount of attention to seeing normal trade resume in beef as they are to seeing 2X4s cross the border. The restrictions the U.S. has on trade or non trade in our live cattle are costing our producers way more than any tariffs being paid by the softwood lumber people.

    I would say just one thing. While your preference would no doubt be to see no imports of beef and cattle, whose imports would you prefer? Would you prefer Australian and South American imports or would you prefer North American cattle which operate in at least a similar cost structure as you do? While in a perfect world we would have no imports while enjoying export sales the world does not work that way from my vantage point.

    But let’s imagine a scenario where the U.S. protectionist lobby was successful in keeping out what are seen as competing imports. This is what I would think would happen… There would be a brief period of higher prices while the U.S. beef herd increased in size by a maximum of 5% to make up for the displaced imports (assuming there was room in the industry for expansion against competing uses of the land). After which the packers would return prices paid for live cattle to previous levels or more likely even below prior levels to limit production and maximize their profits. Packer concentration would increase, competition for live cattle would decrease, resulting in lower prices being paid for live cattle. If that sounds like producers cannot win for losing let me explain.

    I believe supply and demand do not explain the prices paid for commodities, rather a lack of competition for live cattle and the inability of the primary producer to obtain a competitive advantage does. Attempts by domestic producers to limit or short the commodity supply will not have a lasting effect on producer’s profitability unless some way is found for them to increase their competitive position in the marketplace. The method to address that problem in Canada is seen by many producers as a few properly structured producer owned packing plants to create competition in the marketplace. Frankly I think Canadians are on the right track in seeking solutions to chronically low producer returns when compared to the American producers who are simply seeking to block imports rather than seeking to improve their competitiveness with the packers.

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      #12
      Randy,

      Good to know you missed me. Not so good to hear that you think there is no information at www.bseclassaction.ca Have you read the statement of claim yet? Lots of information there, including the fact that the lawsuit is aimed primarily at what used to be known as Agriculture Canada, as well as Ridley.

      On November 15th and 16th Regional Senior Justice Warren K. Winkler (originally from Pincher Creek) will be hearing arguments from all parties on the issue of whether there is a viable claim here in the law. The test, as Justice Borins says is: "It is not necessary for the plaintiffs to show that they are going to win their case. All they need show is a case fit to be tried - a case which will get them past the door to the courtroom."

      Justice Winkler has tremendous experience in class actions, and is very bright, tough and fair. We are lucky to have him. If he says that this intended class action passes this threshold test then it will be time for everyone, including the Feds, to sit up and take notice. I'll keep you posted.

      All the best.

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        #13
        cpallett: I understood your group approached the ABP for support. How did you make out with that?

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          #14
          Thanks Cameron. Read the statement of claim and your research is very well done.

          My own personal interest will be whether the feds stand by their claim of BSE transmission or whether they talk of the "potential of transmission", and the "potential of spontaneous cases". I notice you used "most probable" in the claim, and that is likely the feds route as well.

          Wish that time didn't have to be such a factor. Nov. 16th is a long way off yet.

          Good luck
          Randy

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            #15
            I was reading the paper today, said that the Canadian Government is getting "serious" about the USA's protectionist policies. It seems they may put a tarriff on feed corn coming into the country in retaliation for softwood and other disputes we are having. What kind of #$%holes could dream up this spineless retaliation? Another thing, why is it always agricutural related? The yanks probably just love this crap. How is that going to hurt them? All they will do is increase subsidies to their farmers to make up the difference. They must get quite a chuckle out of this. Personally I have had enough of this, Canadians are better than the slaves to the US corporate interests that we act like. If our government actually had any balls, including FEDERAL and PROVINCIAL, they would put on a provincial export tax on all of alberta's fuel/ oil heading south, say matching what the pricks are charging us on our softwood lumber and wheat, and then we can redistribute it back to the affected companies. Just like those so called "free enterprisers" do. TIT for TAT. THat is the only way to get those peoples attention. Get 'em where it hurts, and yes, they will still pay for our oil as they need it. They won't have to though as they will be back at the bargaining table so fast your head would spin. PS. I work in the oilpatch and depend on it to support my farm, but enough is enough. Time to grow a spine and call their bluff. I'm getting a little tired of this exploitation of us and our resources.

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              #16
              one thing to remember when suggesting an oil and gas tarif is the fact that the oil and gas industry in Canada is mainly owned by US investors !!

              Comment


                #17
                Tariff on Corn, thats brilliant!! Drive up feed costs here! Good for our livestock industry...guess more animals will have to go south to be fed!
                ALthough, I have not really herd anything serious about corn tariffs.

                Comment


                  #18
                  farmers_son,

                  The ABP, CCA, OntarioCA and other producer organizations are focussed on getting help from the Feds in the form of subsidies, programs to increase sales of Canadian beef products abroad etc. What we are trying to do is hit the Feds right between the eyes with a baseball bat and force them to give the money back that they effectively stole from Canadian cattle producers through their negligence. A somewhat different approach.

                  So, the producers' organizations are taking a hands-off approach with us because they do not want to poison their lobbying efforts. In my view this is correct politics. I believe that cattle producers are best served by having the ABP and CCA, for example, get as much as they can from the Feds in the way of subsidies while we do our best to collect the other 90% or so that producers have lost. No guarantee that we are going to win, so why should we interfere with producer organizations' ability to lobby for more help? We are counting on building support at the grass roots level as this lawsuit progresses. That means you, and others like you. Please spread the word.

                  All the best.

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Randy,

                    Fortunately for us 'most probable' does the trick. The test in the common law is balance of probabilities; in other words whether it is most likely or not(think of the scales of justice). Not to be confused with the criminal law test of 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. All we need is a 51% likelihood in the court's view that things happened the way we say they did and we are there.

                    Delay in our court system is inevitable and extremely frustrating. No doubt the Feds will appeal anything and everything they can and try to slow things down where possible. Fortunately, in Regional Senior Justice Winkler we have a strong judge who is not likely to put up with too much nonsense or delay from anyone, including the Feds.

                    All the best.

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