R CALF

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son- M-COOL is about being honest with the consumer. Most US consumers do not even know that the US imports beef- we are a nation of many ranch's- why would we import beef? Also imported beef has always been stamped with the USDA label and passed off as a US product...Consumers know that everything from T-Shirts to toiletpaper is labeled with country of origin- so when they see the USDA label they assume its US product...The meat industry (packers) have fought off labeling for years, so they can use it to their advantage- but finally consumers are becoming educated- M-COOL will come about...

And when all the cheap cheap Central and South American beef starts flowing into Canada, I think you'll see Canadian producers screaming for it too..

[HAYMAKER]

Emrald1: Did you missread Willowcreeks comments? There is nothing about MCOOL that has anything to do with our two countries working together. MCOOL is about keeping Canadian live cattle out of U.S. packing plants and out of U.S. retail coolers.

Whatever the feed rules end up being Canada and the U.S. will be harmonized. MCOOL? That is a different story. Bottom line, MCOOL is about American first, not working as a team with Canada or anyone else.
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Not every one believes M COOL is about keeping canadian beef out of the US market,but damn near every one I talk to believes the consumer should know where their food comes from,except you?
why would the US cattle man have a problem competing with canada,M COOL is about S America not canada.........good luck PS why would you begrudge the US consumer the right to know where their food comes from yet you promote M COOL for canada.

[cowman]

Haymaker: Pre-BSE I never gave it a thought, I don't know if it was ever really a big concern? Don't know if it is now?
Maybe I am still very naive about this whole thing because I am removed from the fat market and only raise calves and feeders. I do know that even before BSE the farmer/feeder was declining and the big commercial feedlots were taking more and more of the cattle. I expect the big lots were more efficient and the margins weren't there to justify the smaller farmer/feeder?
I do believe MCOOL is basically a ploy to keep Canadian and Mexican cattle out of US packinghouses and off the retail shelf, as farmers son says. In the long run it might come back to bite you though? The beef coming out of the packing plants right now has the Canadian stamp on it and is in a box labelled "Product of Canada"! So who is changing that to product of the USA? The fact is most of our beef never hits the supermarket shelf but goes to the high end restaurant trade? I would think our old cows, that used to go to the states, entered the grinding and manufacturing trade? Now how long do you think it would take Tyson to get a cow plant built up here if you brought in COOL? Between Tyson and Cargill they have expanded enough up here that they can basically kill every fat we produce here? Bring in MCOOL and you just assured them a cheap supply of beef that they can use to exploit your market.
No argument here about changing the feeding rules...I would take it further and allow no animal protein to be fed period!
Haymaker, unfortunately globalization is coming whether we like it or not? Might want to look at how you can compete rather than try to stop the competition? The government can't pass laws that will make you competitive if you aren't?
Lastly how are you going to bring in MCOOL when you can't even trace your animals...and aren't going to be able to for several years? MCOOL is nothing more than an impediment to trade at this point, which is why R-CALF embraces it so warmly, without ever thinking what the consequences might be.

[cowman]

I don't have a problem with country of origin labelling as long as it is done on all products entering the US as well as coming this way. If the packing plants in the US need our beef and if its top quality why should we worry about it being labelled as a product of Canada. I don't for one minute think that RCALF has any intent in mind other than to keep all our cattle and beef out of the US, and hopefully they do not succeed. I am willing to bet that many of the RCALF members have no clue what they really stand for!!! We criticize ABP for being run by a few people at the top, why would we think that RCALF is any different.
Montana ranchers have never had it so good, so of course protectionism is behind their actions.

[HAYMAKER]

cowman if you believe M COOL to be a ploy to keep canadian imports out,explain to me why canadian pork is so sought after by the us consumer,and why beef will be differnt?..........good luck

[HAYMAKER]

I am a consumer as well as a producer and I would like the opportunity to choose what country my food comes from and further than that how it was fed. I would like to see this go one step further so that all establishments that serve food have to advertise in their menu where the products come from, then the customer can choose.
I can remember going to several restaurants in the US a few years ago and seeing Prime Alberta Beef advertised in the menu. Made me feel pretty proud.
If we get rid of all the finger pointing and protectionism our entire industry on both sides of the border will be in much better shape.

[Willowcreek]

Personal opinion- Consumers should have the choice of knowing where their meat comes from- in both countries-and USDA's allowing the packers to remove the Canadian label and put on the USDA stamp is nothing short of fraud....As of now, most consumers when questioned would tell you they have never ate Canadian beef- it all had a USDA stamp on it...

USDA has set up a US source verified program (BEV) for our export countries that want to be guaranteed US beef, but they won't do it for the US citizens.

Cool verification is simple- everything coming into the country boxed is already labeled- the USDA just needs to not allow the packers to remove that labeling...Every live animal coming into the country is now branded- M for Mexico, C^N for Canadian- everything else is US sourced. That and signed affidavits are what they use for the BEV program.

cowman- They are now saying that US consumers are dropping back on eating out by 20 % because of oil prices and less money--If all the Canadian beef goes to the restaurant trade,like you say, should and will we cut back Canadian beef imports by 20%? Probably should- but won't happen- just probably be producers on both sides taking a 20% if not much more cut in prices as the packers again have the availability to their supply....

[farmers_son]

We don’t worry about our beef being labeled as a Product of Canada. We should worry about having market access to our fair trade partners to the south.

Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling is nothing less than an artificial trade barrier. Some firms may choose to avoid imported cuts in order to avoid incurring the costs of segregation and control systems for imported meat cuts, and the penalties of non-compliance, which is the ultimate intent of the program.

MCOOL is not about putting a label on a package of meat, it is about discouraging retailers from even selling imported meat to avoid a mixup or mislabeling situation punishable by hefty fines.

There are three cost factors associated with a new country-of-origin labeling requirement on muscle cuts.1
• The costs of preserving the identity of imported beef and lamb cuts from the point of entry into the United States to the retail grocery counter. Packers, processors, importers, wholesalers, distributors and retailers would incur costs of marking shipments and segregating imported product from domestic meat.
• The direct costs of new or revised labels and the additional labor costs to affix any additional labels in some establishments lacking automated labeling equipment.
• Government costs to ensure compliance.
It is my opinion and I believe the hope of protectionist groups like R-Calf that the costs of preserving the identity of the imported beef would be so high as to stop that importation all together. For example U.S. slaughter plants wishing to kill Canadian live cattle would have to develop indentity preserving plans to keep Canadian product separate or risk having all their production labelled imported or destined only for food service.

Canadian beef would only have access to the food service/restaurant trade. On the plus side packing capacity would need to increase in Canada. However we would be cut off from the American packers who seem to be only source of competition for live cattle.

It is hypocritical to say consumers should have a choice while in the same breath saying labeling should be mandatory. There is nothing stopping anyone from labeling product as to country of origin now. What MCOOL does however is erect non tariff trade barriers specifically designed to keep out non American sources of beef and cattle.

Both the United States and Canada have strong food safety equivalency protocols in place to ensure imported food is every bit as safe as domestic production.

It is folly for either American or Canadian producers to believe that any benefits from MCOOL would make it back to them. Producers would however have to bear the burden of the costs of the program. The winners would be chicken producers who are exempt from MCOOL and would not have to bear the costs of the program.

There is a good discussion of MCOOL at:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/congress/cool.htm

The discussion concludes by saying “In summary, country of origin labeling is certain to impose at least some costs on industry which will either be passed back to producers in the form of lower prices or forward to consumers via higher prices [it is my guess both will happen]. There would also be compliance and enforcement costs to the government.”

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son-- your argument about costs of recordkeeping and penalties for not having records doesn't cut it-- That is because these records are already required by FDA thru the Homeland Security Act on all imported foods- and there are penalties for not keeping these records. They have to know where it comes from, and be able to show where it came from-they just don't have to tell the consumer or label it......

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son "Both the United States and Canada have strong food safety equivalency protocols in place to ensure imported food is every bit as safe as domestic production."

If FDA closes the feed ban loopholes in the next few months I will agree with that....

But do you believe Mexico has equivalent protocols? Do you think their enviromental, chemical, antibiotic and vaccine usage, and feed rules are equivalent? Their slaughterplant process and inspections? In a country that is rift with government graft and bribery- where teenage boys peddle their sister for a dollar- how much would it cost to get an inspector to let things slip?

How about Central America or South America where many of the people work for an average wage of $6 day...

Remember- once this meat enters the US and given the USDA stamp it can go to Canada unrestricted and passed off as generic beef beside the Canadian and US beef under NAFTA....

[farmers_son]

The statement regarding food safety was taken from the Food Safety and Inspection Service of United States Department of Agriculture document referred to in the link.

From the Canadian side of the border our impression is that the USDA very vigorously, even to the point of being over zealous, inspects Canadian product entering the United States. I would assume they act the same way at the Mexico border.

Unfortunately the MCOOL law lumps Canadian product with South American product which certainly does not get you very much support from this side of the border for MCOOL. If food safety is the issue it would be cheaper for the industry to tighten import protocols. However it appears that the issue is protectionism.

[farmers_son]

Willowcreek: Again my comments about costs are supported by the FSIS document.

[Willowcreek]

Farmers_son--"Willowcreek: Again my comments about costs are supported by the FSIS document."

Then you are getting only what the multinational packers have told them they can say.....

[farmers_son]

The problem with disputing information from sources as the FSIS is where do you go for information. When producers turn to organizations like R-Calf to get their information on issues like MCOOL they stand to get told only what they want to hear.

[cowman]

Haymaker: I don't know if Canadian pork is sought after by US consumers? Maybe Canadian bacon...but then I doubt it is mandatory labelling? Probably more of a marketing stratedgy?
I personally don't have a big problem with the idea of COOL, except for the extra costs? Who will pay for that? Will the packers just chalk it up on the Canadian cattle or , more likely, add the costs to both American and Canadian cattle?
You say all cattle coming from Canada to the US are branded CAN, I wonder if all cattle coming to Canada from the US are required to be branded USA? I doubt a supermarket up here could sell any, after the way you Americans have treated us...but what do you care right?
Anti-American feeling is very high here right now because of trade disputes that have devastated industries up here. R-CALFs contention that Canadians shouldn't be relying on their markets is fine...but maybe you shouldn't be relying on our oil and gas? Trade between our countries is a two way street...you can't expect to screw us on whatever you choose and not expect some retaliation? And that is just plain stupid because in the big picture nobody wins? Whether you like it or not our countries have a very close relationship and despite recent events we're going to get a lot closer! Despite you protectionists and our own little American haters up here!
If the costs of COOL make slaughter of Canadian cattle in the US unrewarding, I would think the Canadian packers would just ship processed beef south, already labelled? Remember Tyson and Cargill haven't been asleep up here...they have the capacity to kill just about every fat available! But with MCOOL in place you just eliminated a competitive market here and have set yourself up to have to compete with some pretty cheap beef!
In the end the USA will decide whether MCOOL is in their best interests? According to you the packing industry runs the whole shebang down there so I guess if that is true MCOOL won't happen? I suspect the US government doesn't really care what a bunch of ranchers think anyway...just like our wonderful government up here? They will go with the money boys.