R CALF

[Willowcreek]

cowman- many criticize R-CALF for its stand on safety- both consumer and herd health...But slowly even the US government is coming around to their way of thinking..FDA has announced that they are revising the feed ban rules--talking of removing SRM's from rendering, and removing chicken litter, table scraps, and blood products from all livestock feed.. This is something that should have been done years ago- but was fought by the corporate interests... Now USDA needs to implement M-COOL so consumers have a choice- then I say open the border- let her rip....

If the USDA and FDA had done this in the first place I'm convinced the border would already be open- maybe beef would be going to Asia also-Definitely would be if USDA had listened to R-CALF and allowed Creekstone and others to test...

[Willowcreek]

willowcreek your comments make sense, and show how our countries need to work as a team develop policies with respect to food safety that work in our integrated markets. Working as a team make so much more sense than spending hard earned dollars of our respective producers fighting each other. I look at the disaster in your country and see how far the dollars RCALF is spending fighting our beef producers would go toward alleviating some of the suffering . The issue that bothers our producers the most with respect to RCALF is the absolute false statements that are being made about our products, particularly when the US has BSE.

[farmers_son]

Emrald1: Did you missread Willowcreeks comments? There is nothing about MCOOL that has anything to do with our two countries working together. MCOOL is about keeping Canadian live cattle out of U.S. packing plants and out of U.S. retail coolers.

Whatever the feed rules end up being Canada and the U.S. will be harmonized. MCOOL? That is a different story. Bottom line, MCOOL is about American first, not working as a team with Canada or anyone else.

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son- M-COOL is about being honest with the consumer. Most US consumers do not even know that the US imports beef- we are a nation of many ranch's- why would we import beef? Also imported beef has always been stamped with the USDA label and passed off as a US product...Consumers know that everything from T-Shirts to toiletpaper is labeled with country of origin- so when they see the USDA label they assume its US product...The meat industry (packers) have fought off labeling for years, so they can use it to their advantage- but finally consumers are becoming educated- M-COOL will come about...

And when all the cheap cheap Central and South American beef starts flowing into Canada, I think you'll see Canadian producers screaming for it too..

[HAYMAKER]

Emrald1: Did you missread Willowcreeks comments? There is nothing about MCOOL that has anything to do with our two countries working together. MCOOL is about keeping Canadian live cattle out of U.S. packing plants and out of U.S. retail coolers.

Whatever the feed rules end up being Canada and the U.S. will be harmonized. MCOOL? That is a different story. Bottom line, MCOOL is about American first, not working as a team with Canada or anyone else.
_______________________________________

Not every one believes M COOL is about keeping canadian beef out of the US market,but damn near every one I talk to believes the consumer should know where their food comes from,except you?
why would the US cattle man have a problem competing with canada,M COOL is about S America not canada.........good luck PS why would you begrudge the US consumer the right to know where their food comes from yet you promote M COOL for canada.

[cowman]

Haymaker: Pre-BSE I never gave it a thought, I don't know if it was ever really a big concern? Don't know if it is now?
Maybe I am still very naive about this whole thing because I am removed from the fat market and only raise calves and feeders. I do know that even before BSE the farmer/feeder was declining and the big commercial feedlots were taking more and more of the cattle. I expect the big lots were more efficient and the margins weren't there to justify the smaller farmer/feeder?
I do believe MCOOL is basically a ploy to keep Canadian and Mexican cattle out of US packinghouses and off the retail shelf, as farmers son says. In the long run it might come back to bite you though? The beef coming out of the packing plants right now has the Canadian stamp on it and is in a box labelled "Product of Canada"! So who is changing that to product of the USA? The fact is most of our beef never hits the supermarket shelf but goes to the high end restaurant trade? I would think our old cows, that used to go to the states, entered the grinding and manufacturing trade? Now how long do you think it would take Tyson to get a cow plant built up here if you brought in COOL? Between Tyson and Cargill they have expanded enough up here that they can basically kill every fat we produce here? Bring in MCOOL and you just assured them a cheap supply of beef that they can use to exploit your market.
No argument here about changing the feeding rules...I would take it further and allow no animal protein to be fed period!
Haymaker, unfortunately globalization is coming whether we like it or not? Might want to look at how you can compete rather than try to stop the competition? The government can't pass laws that will make you competitive if you aren't?
Lastly how are you going to bring in MCOOL when you can't even trace your animals...and aren't going to be able to for several years? MCOOL is nothing more than an impediment to trade at this point, which is why R-CALF embraces it so warmly, without ever thinking what the consequences might be.

[cowman]

I don't have a problem with country of origin labelling as long as it is done on all products entering the US as well as coming this way. If the packing plants in the US need our beef and if its top quality why should we worry about it being labelled as a product of Canada. I don't for one minute think that RCALF has any intent in mind other than to keep all our cattle and beef out of the US, and hopefully they do not succeed. I am willing to bet that many of the RCALF members have no clue what they really stand for!!! We criticize ABP for being run by a few people at the top, why would we think that RCALF is any different.
Montana ranchers have never had it so good, so of course protectionism is behind their actions.

[HAYMAKER]

cowman if you believe M COOL to be a ploy to keep canadian imports out,explain to me why canadian pork is so sought after by the us consumer,and why beef will be differnt?..........good luck

[HAYMAKER]

I am a consumer as well as a producer and I would like the opportunity to choose what country my food comes from and further than that how it was fed. I would like to see this go one step further so that all establishments that serve food have to advertise in their menu where the products come from, then the customer can choose.
I can remember going to several restaurants in the US a few years ago and seeing Prime Alberta Beef advertised in the menu. Made me feel pretty proud.
If we get rid of all the finger pointing and protectionism our entire industry on both sides of the border will be in much better shape.

[Willowcreek]

Personal opinion- Consumers should have the choice of knowing where their meat comes from- in both countries-and USDA's allowing the packers to remove the Canadian label and put on the USDA stamp is nothing short of fraud....As of now, most consumers when questioned would tell you they have never ate Canadian beef- it all had a USDA stamp on it...

USDA has set up a US source verified program (BEV) for our export countries that want to be guaranteed US beef, but they won't do it for the US citizens.

Cool verification is simple- everything coming into the country boxed is already labeled- the USDA just needs to not allow the packers to remove that labeling...Every live animal coming into the country is now branded- M for Mexico, C^N for Canadian- everything else is US sourced. That and signed affidavits are what they use for the BEV program.

cowman- They are now saying that US consumers are dropping back on eating out by 20 % because of oil prices and less money--If all the Canadian beef goes to the restaurant trade,like you say, should and will we cut back Canadian beef imports by 20%? Probably should- but won't happen- just probably be producers on both sides taking a 20% if not much more cut in prices as the packers again have the availability to their supply....

[farmers_son]

We don’t worry about our beef being labeled as a Product of Canada. We should worry about having market access to our fair trade partners to the south.

Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling is nothing less than an artificial trade barrier. Some firms may choose to avoid imported cuts in order to avoid incurring the costs of segregation and control systems for imported meat cuts, and the penalties of non-compliance, which is the ultimate intent of the program.

MCOOL is not about putting a label on a package of meat, it is about discouraging retailers from even selling imported meat to avoid a mixup or mislabeling situation punishable by hefty fines.

There are three cost factors associated with a new country-of-origin labeling requirement on muscle cuts.1
• The costs of preserving the identity of imported beef and lamb cuts from the point of entry into the United States to the retail grocery counter. Packers, processors, importers, wholesalers, distributors and retailers would incur costs of marking shipments and segregating imported product from domestic meat.
• The direct costs of new or revised labels and the additional labor costs to affix any additional labels in some establishments lacking automated labeling equipment.
• Government costs to ensure compliance.
It is my opinion and I believe the hope of protectionist groups like R-Calf that the costs of preserving the identity of the imported beef would be so high as to stop that importation all together. For example U.S. slaughter plants wishing to kill Canadian live cattle would have to develop indentity preserving plans to keep Canadian product separate or risk having all their production labelled imported or destined only for food service.

Canadian beef would only have access to the food service/restaurant trade. On the plus side packing capacity would need to increase in Canada. However we would be cut off from the American packers who seem to be only source of competition for live cattle.

It is hypocritical to say consumers should have a choice while in the same breath saying labeling should be mandatory. There is nothing stopping anyone from labeling product as to country of origin now. What MCOOL does however is erect non tariff trade barriers specifically designed to keep out non American sources of beef and cattle.

Both the United States and Canada have strong food safety equivalency protocols in place to ensure imported food is every bit as safe as domestic production.

It is folly for either American or Canadian producers to believe that any benefits from MCOOL would make it back to them. Producers would however have to bear the burden of the costs of the program. The winners would be chicken producers who are exempt from MCOOL and would not have to bear the costs of the program.

There is a good discussion of MCOOL at:
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/congress/cool.htm

The discussion concludes by saying “In summary, country of origin labeling is certain to impose at least some costs on industry which will either be passed back to producers in the form of lower prices or forward to consumers via higher prices [it is my guess both will happen]. There would also be compliance and enforcement costs to the government.”

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son-- your argument about costs of recordkeeping and penalties for not having records doesn't cut it-- That is because these records are already required by FDA thru the Homeland Security Act on all imported foods- and there are penalties for not keeping these records. They have to know where it comes from, and be able to show where it came from-they just don't have to tell the consumer or label it......