grassfarmer?

[cowman]

cswilson: A lot of common sense in your post. I do believe in these times we need to let the darned cow start to take care of herself. Not so sure about the horse thing? Little bit too "primitive" for my taste!
Linda: Yep, corn could definitely be added, although we are only looking at it as a source of forage? Not real sure about the numbers for corn? They still are a bit iffy?
Farmers son: Without a doubt Price is not some kind of charity! He is a very savy businessman who can play the game.
Your contention that AWP and Sask Pool were victims of "regulatory circumstances" just goes to point out any venture can succeed if the government mandates it! Were they truly efficient organizations or were they propped up by government rules? I note they dissappeared fairly fast when there was a level playing field? Is this the only way a co-op can make it...government interference in the market place?
If you are a true believer in "free enterprize" I would think you would advocate the concept of "let the best triumph" and the weak fall away? Not a very pretty picture when you are the weak, is it?

[cswilson]

You know cowman it it was approached properly I'm sure we could find tourists who would pay for the privilige of using horses to feed our cows-eliminate labour costs and generate some revenue.The best way to get even with the fuel dealer-equipment peddler etc is to eliminate them as much as possible from your operation. I know the riding arena up here uses German tourists pretty much as paying slaves most of the tme lol.

[cswilson]

cwilson hands on agriculture is a real tourist attraction but it might be a stretch to expect them to hitch up the team in -45 !!!

[farmers_son]

Cowman: Ok, what would you do? You have correctly pointed out that agriculture is a dog. I pointed out that part of the reason agriculture is a dog is because Canadian producers receive $180 or so less than American producers. There would be other reasons as well. Many have suggested packing plants and vertical integration as offering a solution. What I hear from you is let the weak fall. Is that your solution? If so, I would point out that todays weak were yesterdays strong. Margins continued to decline to a point where what was a profitable enterprise 20 years ago is unprofitable today and there is no reason to believe that margins will not continue to decline. How do you see agriculture and in particular cattle production in 20 or 40 years?

[smcgrath76]

F_S - I may have forgotten to mention that I really enjoy my job as well.
That said I do appreciate your insight into going farming, however I have a young family to consider as well as the fact that I have remained relatively debt free while expanding the farm to the point where it will generate a profit this year. Previously we were expanding our cowherd fairly quickly and were not selling a lot of heifers (even though I know I can buy them from cswilson).
I do tend to agree with the concept of moving up the value chain as the place to invest, certainly for someone in my age/business bracket that appears to be the place that provides the most opportunities.
In the traditional sense, expansion through the aquisition of more land is limited only by complete goofiness in our local area due to prices in excess of $1000 / acre for unfenced grazing land that may run at 0.5 AUM per acre. There are other opportunities for our beef herd in crop residue grazing, pasture and cow lease agreements, and others if you want to get creative.
One advantage to working outside the farm that I am not sure how to quantify is that it forces me to work on the farm in a business sense. Additionally, it also has provided me with immeasurable contacts to work on the value adding side (and even the cost cutting side) of things. I would guess that most young producers are not so lucky.

[cswilson]

Was thinking of this thread last night-maybe farming is like it is because nobody knows a definate date when their farming career will end-we don't start at age 20 knowing we'll be quitting at 55-we might go till were 80. Here's some food for thought-what if there was a semirigid retirement date for farmers and ranchers-let's say at age 60-no more support programs or a progressively higher tax rate-it might free up aome real estate for younger farmers that they can afford to by not having the 60 somethings snapping everything up.Imagine what it would be like if there was farmland coming up for sale that the landhogs wouldn't be interested in. Something to think about.

[smcgrath76]

That is interesting. I wonder how the business side of primary agriculture would look if retirement was not funded solely by equity investment, and instead was funded through off farm investment such as cash savings, RSP and pension funds.
I am not sure about the higher taxes thing though as it might prompt lower profits and create a bigger problem. I know farmers whose sole goal in business is to not pay income tax and they do a good job of it.
I also think you would have to figure out a way to ease the tax burden on land transition for those exiting the industry.

[cswilson]

Well I'm sure they could sweeten the capital gains side of things -what I was getting atr was how agricultural attitudes wqould change if we knew there was a fixed date when we could retire-most of us kind of ranch with the attitide-I'll go till a horse falls on me lol.

[cswilson]

Hopefully no one in their wisdom passes legislation anytime soon decreeing that farmers should retire at 60th, because there wouldn't be many people left farming !!!

[cswilson]

Not many 60 year olds but maybe alot more 30 year olds-it's impossible for the next generation to pay for the inflated value of their parents assests.