Sort Your Calves!!!!

[kato]

Just got a memo from the CFIA today regarding the new protocol for shipping heifers to the states. This is for fats and feeders alike.

If they are going to be preg checked by palpation, they need certification that they have been segregated from all male cattle for at least 50 days before the preg check. This means steers too. This means they must be in separate pens. Not only that, they must be in pens that are separated by at least one other pen. They CAN NOT be in adjoining pens.

I don't know about anyone else here, but we don't have so many pens in the yard that we can put a pen between the heifers and the steers. Besides that, what would we put in it? Not heifers, because they would be ineligible. Not steers. So we have an empty pen? Just sitting there? I know feedlots can segregate easier than we can, but they have the same problem with what to put in the middle as well.

They did cut some slack for heifers tested by ultrasound. The limit is only 35 days. Wow! I am so underwhelmed by the generosity.

This is getting beyond ridiculous, and I'm getting more than a little fed up. Do we require American cattle to meet these standards? Talk about a trade barrier! An animal that is carrying a fetus measuring less than two inches in length is hardly going to endanger the entire American cattle herd is it?

This all came about because Canadian vets lose their accreditation if a pregnant heifer gets by. Not only do they lose accreditation for cattle, but for all species. OVERKILL. Plain and simple.

I would like to know who decided the vets lose their accreditation, the CFIA or the Canadian government. I would hope that the USDA doesn't have control over who qualifies in this country to inspect cattle.

GRRRR.....

[cswilson]

Wonder what the deal is on spayed heifers-that's the route were going to take from now on-think we might spay our opens at pregtest time even. I know at the yearling sale it was a nickel or better premium if the seller garanteed them open. CFIA should come up with a program whereby you can certify your hfrs as spays-we branded ours different just to make sure there were no mixups.

[kato]

When I called to complain, (after the vet got real cranky with me and told me that this was going to be a good thing) I asked him about spaying heifers. He said it would have to be done in a humane manner, and that the vet would have to sign some kind of official documents saying the animal had been spayed, with the CCIA numbers on the document. Other than that, he was of no help.

I agree. We need a program started right away to make the spaying certifiable and be able to upload the information to the CCIA database, even on heifers we have bought from someone else.

[cswilson]

Just how do you spay heifers inhumanely lol-I get my vet to do it for me.

[kato]

Exactly. This guy was being cranky with me.

[Willowcreek]

Kato- The Canadians on ranchersnet say you speak with forked tongue-- that there are no such rules...Tam says that since CCA didn't tell them about it, it can't be so..LOL.....

[cowman]

Now I wonder, if spaying/preg checking, is required for Canadian heifers entering the US...is it also required for US heifers entering Canada? After all whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right? I mean both Canada and the USA have BSE?
I hope you R-CALF boys read that last bit...yes THE USA HAS BSE!!! Not some imported cow but your very own home grown BSE cow!
You are fast setting up a systematic approach that could very well return to bite you in the butt down the road? If you continue with these silly rules and regulations, how long until Canadian ranchers demand the same? Montana cattle are a natural source of feeders for the big lots/packers in Alberta. The way your dollar is crashing and your packers folding, how long until your best market might very well be in Alberta? Right now there are a lot of Americans up here buying feeders and placing them in our lots...feedlots that by the way can feed cattle cheaper than American lots!
Will American heifers have to be spayed/preg checked as they cross into Canada in the future? Guess who will be paying for that? A hint? It sure won't be the feedlot or the packer!

[cowman]

spoke to my vet friend yesterday about this issue. He advised that the regs are to the effect that vets must certify heifers as not preg testing positive but that spaying is not a requirement. I would think that he knows what he is talking about as he is one of the vets that is accredited to check cattle going south.

[Willowcreek]

cowman- We to the south are used to the Canadian trade barriers... I've seen thousands of dollars blown in research and testing- days of extra time- because of Canadas Anaplas & Blue Tongue rule....

And you guys had those before too....

I'm curious about these supposed US buyers in Canada-- Are they packer connected trying to line up a captive supply again? Local feedlots and buyers have been keeping a handsoff attitude for now, because of all the unknowns.......

[cswilson]

Willowcreek- trust me when I exporeted bulls to the states there were plenty of needless health regs that had to be followed-the U'S has more health regs state to state than they ever had to follow to come to Canada. I know it always was a pain to get the papoerwork to take cattle to Wyoming if you had to go through Montana first. Tell me why cattle with a negative TB test from A TB free herd in a TB free province would have to be quarinteened for 60 days after they enter the U.S.

[kato]

I agree cowman, we need the same regulations going both ways. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is sickening. The CFIA tells us that they are doing all these things so the USDA doesn't close the border. Trouble is, if the regulations get any more anal, they don't have to worry about it, because it'll be closed anyway for all intents and purposes.

Does anyone know the regulations for handling Canadian feeder heifers after they get to the States? Do they have to be kept two pens away from steers? What if they get bred in an American feedlot? Who takes the responsibility for that? Are they even preg checked before slaughter?

It's not like we're shipping to a BSE free country after all ......

[Willowcreek]

Kato-- USDA is finding out that they should have followed the recommendations that were originally proposed by all involved in the US cattle industry (NCBA, R-CALF, Farm Bureau, and Farmers Union)-- require that all heifers imported be spayed.....

Both US and Canadian producers took advantage of the old rules under the feeder import regulations and illegally used heifers as seedstock- Spaying will keep both sides honest......

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Without a doubt both Cargill and Tyson buy a lot of calves up here in Canada to feed out and slaughter here. They have many "silent deals" with some very large feedlots...that really aren't all that "silent" if you know what I mean?
Without a doubt though there are a lot of Americans, other than Cargill/Tyson, buying calves up here to be fed out and slaughtered here. In fact I believe a lot of your R-CALF buddies and leaders were very active the last few years up here? So I suspect it could be some of them? Which is okay, we will sell them to whoever wants to pay! Maybe you should ask Leo how many he's got on feed up here?
This whole spaying heifers thing is complete drivel. Do you really believe that this makes sense?
You like to pretend that somehow you were "imposed" upon by blue tongue and the other disease? Get over it! We have basically compromised our herd health so you wouldn't weep over a small test! Remember you also require tests for TB and bangs that in reality are unreasonable? We don't weep and wail we just get it done!
Over the last century there has been a huge movement of genetics back and forth over the border in both directions. Now because of an unreasonable protectionist group you want to put a halt to that? You guys are living in some kind of fantasy land.

[Willowcreek]

cowman- I don't think USDA can/will allow seedstock or any cattle that could be used for breeding to cross the border until both countries have implemented a completly operational mandatory ID that can trace cattle every step in their life...

USDA caught too much heat for not keeping adequate records thruout the country on imported cattle pre BSE-- they dare not open the border until they get a working system...

And USDA says this will not be required in the US until 2009- IF, and thats a BIG IF, they can develop the infrastructure and legal process in some areas to provide it- and their track record for getting anything accomplished is dismal to say the least.....

[cattleman2]

WillowCreek: We here in Canada do already have Manditory ID of the animals. We can even trace them backwards to the herd of origin and then the stops in between fairly quickly.

We even have age verification up here. How is that going to sit in the craw of the R-calf boys when Japan opens their marketplace to import beef as long as it has a birth certificate to verify age (somehow I don't think they trust the USDA to do the age verification via the grading process), and Canada can export a large portion of our product. Thanks in large part to R-calf fighting to keep the border closed, and our CDN packing houses expansions (producer owned or the Cargill and Tyson, doesn't matter to me).

You are a long ways away for ID traceability, and then how many of you R-calfers are going to put tags in your calves ears, so that someone can trace right back to YOUR farm if there is a problem 10 months after you sell your calf...

Manditory ID is one thing, complience is another, and I think your americans bristle even more than canadians at the thoought that the GOV'T is going to tell you that you have to tag your animals...