Sort Your Calves!!!!

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Without a doubt both Cargill and Tyson buy a lot of calves up here in Canada to feed out and slaughter here. They have many "silent deals" with some very large feedlots...that really aren't all that "silent" if you know what I mean?
Without a doubt though there are a lot of Americans, other than Cargill/Tyson, buying calves up here to be fed out and slaughtered here. In fact I believe a lot of your R-CALF buddies and leaders were very active the last few years up here? So I suspect it could be some of them? Which is okay, we will sell them to whoever wants to pay! Maybe you should ask Leo how many he's got on feed up here?
This whole spaying heifers thing is complete drivel. Do you really believe that this makes sense?
You like to pretend that somehow you were "imposed" upon by blue tongue and the other disease? Get over it! We have basically compromised our herd health so you wouldn't weep over a small test! Remember you also require tests for TB and bangs that in reality are unreasonable? We don't weep and wail we just get it done!
Over the last century there has been a huge movement of genetics back and forth over the border in both directions. Now because of an unreasonable protectionist group you want to put a halt to that? You guys are living in some kind of fantasy land.

[Willowcreek]

cowman- I don't think USDA can/will allow seedstock or any cattle that could be used for breeding to cross the border until both countries have implemented a completly operational mandatory ID that can trace cattle every step in their life...

USDA caught too much heat for not keeping adequate records thruout the country on imported cattle pre BSE-- they dare not open the border until they get a working system...

And USDA says this will not be required in the US until 2009- IF, and thats a BIG IF, they can develop the infrastructure and legal process in some areas to provide it- and their track record for getting anything accomplished is dismal to say the least.....

[cattleman2]

WillowCreek: We here in Canada do already have Manditory ID of the animals. We can even trace them backwards to the herd of origin and then the stops in between fairly quickly.

We even have age verification up here. How is that going to sit in the craw of the R-calf boys when Japan opens their marketplace to import beef as long as it has a birth certificate to verify age (somehow I don't think they trust the USDA to do the age verification via the grading process), and Canada can export a large portion of our product. Thanks in large part to R-calf fighting to keep the border closed, and our CDN packing houses expansions (producer owned or the Cargill and Tyson, doesn't matter to me).

You are a long ways away for ID traceability, and then how many of you R-calfers are going to put tags in your calves ears, so that someone can trace right back to YOUR farm if there is a problem 10 months after you sell your calf...

Manditory ID is one thing, complience is another, and I think your americans bristle even more than canadians at the thoought that the GOV'T is going to tell you that you have to tag your animals...

[Willowcreek]

cattleman- Several packing plants and feedlots have been requiring age and source verification down here for years- mainly for the Japanese trade...I have brand inspected thousands of calves where the buyer required signed affidavits of birth period, county and state raised, feed sources, and medictions and vaccinations......

So this is nothing new to most of the local producers or buyers and feeders...In fact in talking with some large feeders and buyers- they would rather have cattle that are hot brand IDed with signed affidavits- and then when they get them to their feedlot they can use their own ID and tracking system (RFID tag, chip, retinal scanner, whatever) - and still have the brand and brand records as a backup source of ID.....

[kato]

Which is why the Japanese market will not open any time soon to American beef. They want national, uniform traceback.

It seems that the American system is set up so that change is almost impossible. All these turf wars over who gets to control the ID system just means that the system may not come on line until it's too late. Export markets lost for good, and some of them taken by your former best friend and neighbour.

Is that why your government prefers to pressure other countries into doing things your way. Because other countries have the ability to change, and you don't?

America has BSE. America has changed absolutely nothing because of it. What's different about America? Why no changes? When we found out we had it here, our whole industry flipped upside down and backwards almost immediately. You guys are still arguing about things we settled several years ago. You're getting left behind.

Now your politicians want to drag out the border issue again like it's a new story. Beat the dead horse back to life again.

Anything but change .....

[cowman]

How come it is taking you guys so long to come up with a national ID? You would think it would be a priority if you want to resume exports?
My own personal view of branding is that it should be banned as cruelty to animals. We have the technology where we don't need to run around burning animals?
Just because it was acceptable once doesn't mean it still should be! I wonder how many farmers would like to be branded on their butts? Branding, dehorning, castrating with a knife...all old practices that should fall by the wayside? What do they do in Europe where the public actually cares about how their food is raised?

[kato]

They use local anesthetic for a lot of things. And they sure don't brand.

[kato]

I agree, the cowboy way of roping, dragging, cutting, frying, hot iron branding should go the way of the dodo bird.

A lot of livestock handling practices leave a lot to be desired.

[cswilson]

Emerald and I think the clanging,banging,prodding,poking,whipping of a tipping table crew is as inhumane as anything-I bet you've never seen a good group of cowboys brand a set of calves using horse-were talking cowboys here-not wanna-be team ropers and team penners. We brand a few 'thousand' calves a year up here the old way-the only calf I saw all spring that suffered any adverse affects from it reacted to the blackleg vaccine. Your welcome to visit anytime and see how good stockmen and women handle cattle-might open up your eyes. Most of us make our entire living off our cows-do you honestly think we'd handle them in a way that we thought was detrimental. Ohh by the way-running the piss out of cattle on a quad is almost a hanging offence up here. Just last week we gathered 200 plus pairs and sorted the calves off-all on horseback-not once did a horse or cow break out of a walk-nobody even spoke-like to see you quad hopping farmers pull that one off.

[Willowcreek]

AMEN- cswilson--- Its apparent that some of these posters have never seen what a good cattleman can do from a horse- and have no idea to the vast expanse and isolation of some areas of this world... This week I moved cows out of an 8 section pasture that has 400-500 cattle running in it owned by at least 4 owners-- identified by the brand- hard to get a microchip reader to work off a horse at 1/4 mile in that big an area..One horse, 2 dogs I gathered mine out (I had 40 pairs in that pasture) with little disruption to anyone elses cattle- next day trailed 10 miles home ... One of the pastures I trailed thru is 16 sections- tough to install microchip readers to sort out cows if they get mixed when there ain't even corrals...

It sounds like some of you want to be like socialist Europe- Own 10 cows on a fenced in 40 acres and get paid a monthly salary to pamper your pets....

But I suppose some of you will chastise me for trailing the cows home, instead of hauling them in a padded bull hauler- or for making my horse and dogs work for their living...

There is still not a PERMANENT ID available that can take the place of hot iron brands for pasture identification....

[Willowcreek]

cwilson, I have been involved in many brandings, where real cattlemen were working off horseback . My job was to either run irons or vaccinate so I have been in the thick of things. I don't own a quad, sold it to my son, so there is nobody chasing cattle with quads here.

Handling livestock in a humane manner is of course in the best interest of the producer, but unfortunately there has been a lot of glorifying branding, roping and dragging calves etc., which gets the animal rights people in a snit.

I don't dissagree with anything you have said with the exception of your suggesting that I have never seen cattle handled properly. I do think that ranchers that are still hot iron branding and all that normally goes with the ranch life are well aware that special interest groups are becoming more prevalent all the time. I have a very good friend that is as true a rancher as anyone, and he will not allow anybody on the ranch at branding except his regular crew. He does not want a photo of a calf being branded to show up in the local paper or worse yet on some wacko's website.

The misconceptions about animal handling are unfortunately what will decide how much longer the traditional ranching way of handling livestock will continue.

[Willowcreek]

cs wilson-- Your AI days are numbered- next somebody on here will be complaining that your molesting that heifer in the chute-- and your definitely depriving the bull of his fun!!!!LOL