Sort Your Calves!!!!

[Willowcreek]

cattleman- Several packing plants and feedlots have been requiring age and source verification down here for years- mainly for the Japanese trade...I have brand inspected thousands of calves where the buyer required signed affidavits of birth period, county and state raised, feed sources, and medictions and vaccinations......

So this is nothing new to most of the local producers or buyers and feeders...In fact in talking with some large feeders and buyers- they would rather have cattle that are hot brand IDed with signed affidavits- and then when they get them to their feedlot they can use their own ID and tracking system (RFID tag, chip, retinal scanner, whatever) - and still have the brand and brand records as a backup source of ID.....

[kato]

Which is why the Japanese market will not open any time soon to American beef. They want national, uniform traceback.

It seems that the American system is set up so that change is almost impossible. All these turf wars over who gets to control the ID system just means that the system may not come on line until it's too late. Export markets lost for good, and some of them taken by your former best friend and neighbour.

Is that why your government prefers to pressure other countries into doing things your way. Because other countries have the ability to change, and you don't?

America has BSE. America has changed absolutely nothing because of it. What's different about America? Why no changes? When we found out we had it here, our whole industry flipped upside down and backwards almost immediately. You guys are still arguing about things we settled several years ago. You're getting left behind.

Now your politicians want to drag out the border issue again like it's a new story. Beat the dead horse back to life again.

Anything but change .....

[cowman]

How come it is taking you guys so long to come up with a national ID? You would think it would be a priority if you want to resume exports?
My own personal view of branding is that it should be banned as cruelty to animals. We have the technology where we don't need to run around burning animals?
Just because it was acceptable once doesn't mean it still should be! I wonder how many farmers would like to be branded on their butts? Branding, dehorning, castrating with a knife...all old practices that should fall by the wayside? What do they do in Europe where the public actually cares about how their food is raised?

[kato]

They use local anesthetic for a lot of things. And they sure don't brand.

[kato]

I agree, the cowboy way of roping, dragging, cutting, frying, hot iron branding should go the way of the dodo bird.

A lot of livestock handling practices leave a lot to be desired.

[cswilson]

Emerald and I think the clanging,banging,prodding,poking,whipping of a tipping table crew is as inhumane as anything-I bet you've never seen a good group of cowboys brand a set of calves using horse-were talking cowboys here-not wanna-be team ropers and team penners. We brand a few 'thousand' calves a year up here the old way-the only calf I saw all spring that suffered any adverse affects from it reacted to the blackleg vaccine. Your welcome to visit anytime and see how good stockmen and women handle cattle-might open up your eyes. Most of us make our entire living off our cows-do you honestly think we'd handle them in a way that we thought was detrimental. Ohh by the way-running the piss out of cattle on a quad is almost a hanging offence up here. Just last week we gathered 200 plus pairs and sorted the calves off-all on horseback-not once did a horse or cow break out of a walk-nobody even spoke-like to see you quad hopping farmers pull that one off.

[Willowcreek]

AMEN- cswilson--- Its apparent that some of these posters have never seen what a good cattleman can do from a horse- and have no idea to the vast expanse and isolation of some areas of this world... This week I moved cows out of an 8 section pasture that has 400-500 cattle running in it owned by at least 4 owners-- identified by the brand- hard to get a microchip reader to work off a horse at 1/4 mile in that big an area..One horse, 2 dogs I gathered mine out (I had 40 pairs in that pasture) with little disruption to anyone elses cattle- next day trailed 10 miles home ... One of the pastures I trailed thru is 16 sections- tough to install microchip readers to sort out cows if they get mixed when there ain't even corrals...

It sounds like some of you want to be like socialist Europe- Own 10 cows on a fenced in 40 acres and get paid a monthly salary to pamper your pets....

But I suppose some of you will chastise me for trailing the cows home, instead of hauling them in a padded bull hauler- or for making my horse and dogs work for their living...

There is still not a PERMANENT ID available that can take the place of hot iron brands for pasture identification....

[Willowcreek]

cwilson, I have been involved in many brandings, where real cattlemen were working off horseback . My job was to either run irons or vaccinate so I have been in the thick of things. I don't own a quad, sold it to my son, so there is nobody chasing cattle with quads here.

Handling livestock in a humane manner is of course in the best interest of the producer, but unfortunately there has been a lot of glorifying branding, roping and dragging calves etc., which gets the animal rights people in a snit.

I don't dissagree with anything you have said with the exception of your suggesting that I have never seen cattle handled properly. I do think that ranchers that are still hot iron branding and all that normally goes with the ranch life are well aware that special interest groups are becoming more prevalent all the time. I have a very good friend that is as true a rancher as anyone, and he will not allow anybody on the ranch at branding except his regular crew. He does not want a photo of a calf being branded to show up in the local paper or worse yet on some wacko's website.

The misconceptions about animal handling are unfortunately what will decide how much longer the traditional ranching way of handling livestock will continue.

[Willowcreek]

cs wilson-- Your AI days are numbered- next somebody on here will be complaining that your molesting that heifer in the chute-- and your definitely depriving the bull of his fun!!!!LOL

[cswilson]

It's the same at our brandings-they aren't a social event-but it ticks me off when a cattleman who should know better starts sounding off like a card carrying PETA member. United we stand divided we fall I'm afraid-I've seen more than one guy quietly told to go unsaddle his horse when he started playing the roll at a branding. Unfortunately I've seen more calves mishandled in tipping tables than at the end of a rope. As for brands-if done properly it is a few seconds of discomfort-no worse than trying to put those #$$%^^$%& set aside tags last winter.

[cswilson]

cwilson I hope you aren't suggesting that I sound like a card carrying PETA member !!!

I certainly don't have large numbers of cattle but I have been in the business for over 30 years which I know isn't a long time compared to many cattlemen and women.

There are a lot of things that go on in agriculture that are misunderstood. Those of us that have cattle near the North Sask. river have had the city of Edmonton complaining that our cows are ruining their water supply, this coming from a city that literally uses the river as their sewer albeit they treat the sewage !!!

In the spring Edmonton water doesn't taste all that great during run off, and a lot of the city folk blame the cattle industry. Calgary is of the same mindset. The point I am making is that regardless of what is generally accepted in an agricultural operation there are more and more people that seem to take exception to it. Anyone that spends any amount of time at an auction barn can see the results of poorly applied brands, and we do have to remember that not everyone viewing these cattle are producers. Cattle running through the ring scarred by half a dozen poor brands look like they have been ill treated to the lay person, and they are the consumer.

I personally do not brand my cattle anymore, they are pastured at home and in my opinion there is really no point in putting the calves through that process if it isn't necessary. I realize that branding is necessary in large operations and cattle going to grazing reserves etc.

[cswilson]

That dodo bird post sounded like you'd just laminated your membership card.

[cowman]

I wonder just how many countries actually brand cattle and if they used to but legislation may have stopped the practice. Also what might be some of the rules regarding branding?
As far as quads disturbing cattle: actually it is just what the cattle are used to and the operator...whether quad or horse? Driving cattle has a lot more to do with "cow sense" than whether it is done on horseback or with a quad. If cattle are used to a quad you actually have no problem...same with a horse.
We should all realize, whether we like it or not, some old traditions will probably change in the near future? And the day might be very near when that "microchip" technology will be more advanced than the human eye? You might get a printout of the location of the cow as well as her temperature, respiration rate, heart rate and a complete breakdown of her history from 200 miles away!
When/if the consumer/government decide hot branding is going to end...it will. Times change and you have to change with them.

[cowman]

Willowcreek: I find it interesting you trailed them home ten miles. Around here you couldn't do that due to all the oilfield traffic! When the darned pickups travel like rockets up and down the grid roads!
We have a half section twelve miles from home and will have to truck them...which is a real pain as we don't have the corrals finished out there yet!
One more job to do before the snow flies...guess I'd better get out there with the DC welder!

[cowman]

cwilson, you have your views and I have mine, but hopefully you will note that while stating my views I have not chosen to lower myself to name-calling. Mature adults respect the views of others while choosing to disagree.

cowman, the neighbour used to trail his cows and calves from his grazing lease, had people on both horseback and quads and the cattle were well under control, but the oil industry is running full throttle here too, so he is trucking them now.

Used to be a real fall EVENT and folks would be out by their gates watching the drive and really enjoying it. Only had a couple of wrecks with cows getting into somebody's field through a bad fence or no fence, but other than that he got 250 pair home every fall without incident.