Sort Your Calves!!!!

[cswilson]

Like I said Emerald your dodo bird post was wayyy off track-just called it as I saw it.

[blackjack]

...we truck a pile of cows and calves to pasture each spring and we do all the sorting with quads...even my 70 somthing year old father has had to admit that with the right guys we get it done much quicker than we did with the horses...

...as for branding...i guess it's fine not to...as long as your cattle stay at home...but until the system comes up with a better owner identification system that is more permanent and tamperproof our operation will continue to brand...
...since i also buy cattle they are all branded...how can you prove ownership otherwise...

...when it comes to castrating i'd rather know i have both testicles removed...of all the calves we buy at least 2 to 3% will have 1 nut up inside and will cause the animal much more stress at a later date...

...as far as i am concerned for those people that live in glass houses...we in the world have people that treat other people with a lot less humanity than we treat our animals...

[Willowcreek]

Cowman- I feel for you if your getting that congested- even if it brings the smell of oil money...
Actually if the weather is nice I enjoy this trail home- and this year it was beautiful- in the 70's with a little breeze- even stayed nice thru gathering the home pastures. But best during that 10 mile trail I cross nothing that could be called a road- two trails...Makes for a peaceful ride...And on years of bad weather I have after gathering and sorting the pasture on horse, swapped the horse for a pickup or 4 wheeler for the trail. Dogs do the work anyway- I'm just there to open the couple of gates and keep anyone elses cows from getting mixed in...

[cswilson]

In thge spring of 2003 I bought 100 slick hided hfr calves-they all had their I"D tags. By that time probably 20 had lost them-to sell those hfrs I had to put CCIA tags in them-so to all intenbts and purposes those hfrs appeared to be born and raised at my place. A properly applied brand at their birth herd would eliminate this problem. If you can sort off pairs on a quad-blackjack you definately know what your doing. I've spent tooo many long cold days in the fall gathering cattle that were quad spoiled to every sell my horses. You know the phonecall-"We gathered our cows yesterday but we lost 4 pairs in the bush-can you come and get them out lol."

[cswilson]

willowcreek, cwilson, I will make another comment on this post even tho I risk being considered a dodo bird, PETA lover etc.
In my area of Alberta it is just impossible to trail cattle, there are hundreds of miles of lease roads, miles and miles of crown land that is all bush with no fences or there are people living every half mile and the traffic isn't just the odd farm pickup. In cowmans area, and my area of Alberta, we share the local county roads with logging trucks, service rigs, tank trucks, rig moves etc. I agree Willowcreek that trailing the herd to pasture or home is very relaxing and certainly something that city slickers would pay big bucks to experience but unfortunately in many areas it isn't either safe or feasible anymore.

[cswilson]

Hey emerald you threw out the dodo bird label not me-we truck cattle at times too.

[cowman]

blackjack: Without a doubt poorly castrated calves(rubber rings) are a real pain! Again it all comes down to the guy operating the ringers!
Personally I have no problem cutting a calf...still do the occasional one that we miss when they are new borns. I also have no problem snipping horns...again ones we might have missed with the paste. Don't have a lot of horned cattle anymore though.
Actually we are pretty lazy when it comes to our cows. Don't mess with them much and I won't tolerate a wild snaky cow. My vet bill is literally zero. Just vaccinate for blackleg and IBR/BVD. No hormones, systematics, scour shots. Can't really remember how long since we had any scours or respiratory diseases. But then I wean real late and everything has lots of good dry bedding and lots of space. Maybe not the most profitable way to do it but sure a lot easier?

[blackjack]

...i hear ya cswilson...when i was younger we rode horses everyday...but as time went on they only got rode in the spring and fall so you can imagine how soft they became... for those cattle that stay in the bush... i call my horse lovin sister in-law...lol...

...wasn't tryin to single you out cowman...i do believe 99% of us try to treat our animals as humane as possible since it is our lively hood...how we treat animals makes me remember when my cousins would visit us from the city...one time we were butchering the chickens... well they thought it was the most ghastly thing watching us go through the process... with 2 to 3% or whatever it is of us left farming or ranching...i agree we will need to adjust to the changes in the future...as we have in the past...

[blackjack]

blackjack, cowman, cwilson et al. Five years ago Alberta did not have regulations governing the livestock industry, today legislation, which is science based, is in place that regulates all livestock operations . The push for this legislation came from the livestock industry themselves as they wished to be on a level playing field across the province vs having 68 sets of municipal rules, or in some cases no rules at all.
Another reason for the legislation was to provide assurance to all stakeholders, consumers etc. that livestock operations do not have a negative effect on the environment.

When I was a municipal councillor one municipality brought forward a resolution at the annual convention that would have seen cattle fenced away from all creeks, rivers,lakes etc. in the words of the resolution ' so they would not contaminate water courses'. Thankfully the membership voted against the resolution, but it is an example of how groups work to lobby government to make changes in the way we operate.
blackjack you are 100% correct when you say that there are so few of us left in the industry. In Alberta the number of rural MLA's is dwindling and some of those that represent so called rural areas actually have many more urban than rural voters.
So few people in todays society have ever been on a farm, much less understand generally accepted farming practices.

[redcountry]

Here on P.E.I. we have been made to fence out our springs ,waterways, and are unable to farm the land in what is called a buffer zone near any waterway or land that has more than a certain slope.
These rules are to protect our ground water and streams from run off.

Most of our streams are filling up with silt from run off and chemicals from intensive potatoe growing are turning our wells unusable.

get used to it, we did! some farms lost 10% of their land to buffer zones
regards
red country

[redcountry]

In Alberta cow calf seasonal feeding and bedding sites ( wintering sites) must not be located within 30m of a water body, or a berm must be built to divert the run off or all manure, bedding etc., must be sc****d up and removed prior to spring runoff.

Cow/calf operations producing more than 500 Tonne of manure per year must soil test and keep records of where manure is applied. This is voluntary, but records can be requested at anytime.

Intensive or confined feeding operations must adhere to strict guildlines, are monitored to ensure that conditions on their existing municipal permits are being adhered to, and any new operations approved post January 1,2002 are monitored to ensure that they are in compliance with the new legislation and the conditions on their permit.

There is still a lot of public push back from communities when a producer applies to build a hog barn and in some cases a feedlot, even though the legislation is sound and certainly addresses environmental issues.

[redcountry]

red country, I will add that in my view the cattle industry does not pose a significant threat to waterways in Alberta. Individual operators do feed on creek banks, in some cases on river ice in the winter etc., but it is not the normal practice for the industry. Watershed societies are being formed all across the province where farmers work together to mitigate any cumulative effects their operations may have on watercourses.

As a private citizen and livstock producer I am a lot more concerned with municpal sewage run off and run off from private sewage fields, septic systems etc., than I am with the cattle industry.

[cswilson]

Emerald a big difference between branding a calf and shitting in the creek isn't there-like I said we don't need cattle producers demeaning acceptable practices in a public forum.The local papers usually run a couple articles a year on brandings-smoke and all-never been a word of horror and outrage from the town folk. Guess were the dodo birds up here where cows still pay the bills.

[cswilson]

cwilson it won't be you or I that decides what generally accepted practices of handling livestock will be, it will be dictated in regulations as public pressure is put on governments. For years, the Marlboro Man image of the cowboy hauling calves to a branding fire, and all the other assorted activities that as you say are normal, is what the average joe citizen associates with the cattle industry. A large sector of the public also feel that feedlots and hog barns are factory farms, no matter how humane the operations are.
I used to sit at the local auction barn and watch cattle being whipped and pounded on by idiots that had no clue how to handle livestock. I was disgusted, and I am in the business, imagine what sort of an image somebody not in the industry would get.
When generally accepted practices are used in an operation nobody should question them, but if those practices seem inhumane to the consumer who buys the product and they feel that all of us in the industry are cruel hartless SOB's then it will affect all of our bottom lines.

I have done Ag in the Classroom for years and many times have sat for an hour talking about how the cattleman cares for his livestock, so as to dispel the impression that the kids should not eat beef because cattle peoducers were MEAN to their cattle.

One of the first things these kids said, year after year, was that they had seen pictures of calves being hauled around by somebody on a horse and branded !!!!!

[cowman]

I suspect branding will be around for awhile yet? At least until the new technology advances a bit more and public pressure bans its use?
The best way to avoid public pressure is to not be blatant about showing a practice that the urban consumer might find distasteful? Things like battery chickens, confined farrowing chutes, slaughter houses?
The Aussies are working now with RFID boluses. In the near future they could come up with very powerful micro chips for tracking animals? Consider how advanced the tracking system is in most new vehicles? Perhaps in a few years you will be riding your horse with a laptop!
Things change and we adapt to the changes? Sometimes willingly...sometimes we have to be dragged kicking and screaming...but we can and do change? Do you remember how tough it was to accept the national cattle ID system?