Those yellow calves!

[cowman]

At the presort yesterday in Innisfail it seemed the Char cross calves pretty well outsold anything else. Now I didn't see all the lots sell so maybe other cattle did just as well later in the sale. I did see some fancy red calves that sold well but I didn't see any big premiums for any black calves!
Without a doubt I am biased! I believe there is no better feeding animal than a good char cross steer. There were a lot of really high end quality char cattle at this sale.
I remember Jack Daines saying at a sale once "I don't know if Charlais are better cattle....I just know they bring more money than anything else!"
I think that says it all?

[kato]

I agree with you 100%.

[kato]

yes cattle man you do have a valid
comment.
char cross are even better in our operation or jellow of course!!
got a little caried away ,on those
small old blak angus !!!!!!!!!!!!!
what you going to do with all you big
calf money old cowboy ????????????
hope we both make money again,these prices will come down on the calves and than we fill up again .

[kato]

O by the way i forgot it was cowman
not cattleman sorry to both of you
have a good fall run !!

[cowman]

Well Jerry I only sell a portion of the big steer calves in the fall. In the real world before BSE always figured if they weren't right around 700 lbs. they stayed home. Never changed that all the way through BSE, don't intend to change it now? Never sell heifers as calves.
Too change that now because calf prices are good just won't work for us due to tax concerns. Besides feed is ultra cheap?
Apparently a new one ton diesel is in the works but it definitely is not cheap!

[countryguy]

For the amount that them white hayburners eat,they darn well better bring in a decent buck!!!

I was at the auction mart a few weeks ago in Ste Rose and saw some Galloway yearlings sell at the top of the market,in the Charolais/simmental heartland!!The buyers were sleeping while all the white and yellow calves were coming through but they woke up in a hurry when those BLACK steers came in!

[cowman]

Well I don't know about white hayburners but I do know those first cross herford/charlais cows get out and hustle and do the job! Still have quite a few around and they are as good as anything I've ever raised. Good coats, heavey boned, quiet, and super milking mommas!
If I could buy five hundred just like that I wouldn't hesitate!
Don't know much about no Galloways. Any calves I see that come into the local marts that show that extremely hairy condition...the buyers pass! Might not be right but that's just how it is! You must have more "enlightened" buyers in your area?

[smcgrath76]

This and the debate about yardage boils down to the problem of cash flow versus economics and I am firmly convinced that they are not the same issue.
A $550 calf can be profitable in some situations where costs are kept low. I am pretty sure that a lot of us have added costs to extract value from the market and/or add convenience to our operations. Most of us probably need to cash flow a lot more than $550 a calf to make things go.
For producers who have their equity (land) paid for and don't expect a return on that investment from production then $550 is probably pretty good money. If you are leasing/buying land then most of us need to cash flow a lot more than that.
The start of our solution has been to calve later, reduce yardage and labour costs and keep our calves longer. As well, planned crossbreeding lets us keep and use little cows and big bulls to make the most of our equity base. Combined with fence and pasture management we are still hanging in there. The longer you own them the less hair and weaning weight and colour seem to matter. I do think that some producers who wound up recieving $500 for calves through BSE fully participated in pricing their product through lack of planning and action (quite apart from lack of packer competition).
The real problem is that in a commodity business, he who does things the cheapest wins.
Cowman - perhaps Randy can set you up with some little black cows. Silver calves are pretty nice too.

[kato]

Who says white cows are necessarily big hayburners? It just ain't true. Just like the old fashioned 10 foot tall Simmentals that used to be in style, the really big Charolais cows are getting scarcer all the time.

Our herd is mostly white. Our cows average 1300 or so pounds. That would put them in the same size range as a lot of black and red cows. We breed most to Limo bulls, and they produce great big tan calves that are built like bricks. We're sure not afraid to take them to town, because they are pretty darn easy to sell.

We pay the same pasture rent for our cows as anyone else, so why not send away a cow that will bring back an extra hundred pounds of calf? The extra size on the calf alone pays for most of the pasture. A friend of ours found this out the hard way this fall. He switched from black Maine bulls to Angus bulls and lost a hundred pounds from his calves. His pasture costs were the same as last year, so did he make more profit from having smaller cattle? Don't think so.

It's the way your operation is set up that determines the best way to maximize your profits. For some, smaller cows might do it, but for others, smaller cows don't utilize the resources available. If you rent pasture, or use the community pastures, you have the same summer overhead costs whether she brings home a 400 pound calf or a 700 pound calf.

[smcgrath76]

I agree with Kato. The question about cow size (although it varies within breed) has been looked at by MARC in the latest cycle. There appears to be no statistically significant difference in mature size (ht/wt or otherwise) between SM/LM/CH/AN/HE/AR/GV or the other breeds tested. Most of the historic differences have all but disappeared. There is still an advantage to having crossbred cows however.
One very interesting thing they found is that low birthweight/high growth bulls tended to result in daughters with smaller mature size. This is interesting as one would suspect that heavy yearlings would result in larger mature size, but some of the genes associated with birthweight seem to override this effect.
I do know that no matter what the colour, low birthweight high growth, low maintenance genetics are hard to produce and are worth a lot of money.

[smcgrath76]

Whatever works best for the individual is the way they should operate. Deciding which breed is the best is just like the conversation around the Sunday dinner table in my family.
One son has a Chev, the other a Fort and I drive a Dodge, so we do NOT argue about vehicles !!!

[smcgrath76]

Pretty close to the truth about which breed to use. The fact is that certain "breed types" fit certain geographic areas/management styles better than others. The management style aspect is quite important as two neighbours who live across the road from each other can each run different breeds and/or breed types and depending on their management approach be quite profitable. I think in Canada it is pretty wide open as to what you can profitably use in a program.

[Muttley]

I am still a true blue Angus fan, but must agree the price for Char X calves is pretty good. I sell a number of them each year. When it comes right down to it I will have to admit I get a few dollars more on average for the Char X calves.
But I agree with the statement that the mothers still eat more and cost me more than my Angus. Most Char X cows at my place are 200 to 400 lbs. bigger than my Angus and I tend to find if a calf is going to have problems it will be those one as they are usually bigger even though they are mainly Angus sired!!!!

[cowman]

We have moved to a later calving date and I still question whether that was the smart thing to do? Now without a doubt it is nicer in the winter but I really doubt it is more profitable or less work in the big picture.
Pre BSE I always figured any calf being sold in the fall had to be bringing home around $780. If not they stayed home and were fed out to sell in the spring or go to grass. Some years you never made a lot after expenses, some years you made a killing! Don't think I ever lost money...maybe in the drought year?
Not real scientific but I have a pretty good feel for what goes in my pocket and what comes out!
In my opinion the best return for my time and labor was those big calves in the fall...with a big emphasis on TIME and LABOR, because I had time in Jan., Feb, March...not so much in April and May.
I kind of figured it this way with winter calving: You might feed a bit more but you didn't have to put the feed into a calf the following winter? And you didn't have to deal with sick calves, or extra work, or cleaning out corrals the next spring?
Now I do not intend to go back to winter calving...too old and too lazy to go there, but it was profitable! At one time the buyers would pay a premium for those big calves which hasn't really happened the last few years?
I have always liked to do things as cheaply as possible...while keeping production as high as possible! Which can be quite a balancing act?
Without a doubt crossbreeding is the cheapest bang for your buck you'll ever get! Not just in the crossbred calf but also in the crossbred cow...maybe even more in the crossbred cow?