GST ON GROCERIES

[tojo]

A study put forward in Ottawa suggests there should be GST (or some other charge) be put on groceries to help fund sustainable farming in Canada - all $3.3 billion.
- Will this be considered a subsidy by the Global community to be challengeable by WTO and NAFTA?? And if so, are we just opening a can of worms similar to the BSE political football??
- If implemented, do we as farmers, lose our ability to claim back our GST expenses for our farms??? To lose this ability will be very expensive for the farming community, and of this #3.3 billion, how much will be needed as administrative expenditures for the bureauocracy to set up a paper trail for claims and disbursements to farmers?? 35-50% maybe that farmers will never see?? And who qualifies??
- What about the consumer backlash??
Are we, as farmers, going to be the targets?? We already have the bad reputation of being at the 'trough' too much at the expense of the Cdn Taxpayer. If the Government is so concerned over the state of sustainable agriculture, funding for the program(s) should be already in the system. To go after the GST is only flaunting a red flag in front of our Urban neighbours, and are we, in the end, going to be the losers??
- The Government fought having the major Canadian banks amalgamate in the 1990's, and at the same time allowed the food industry to consolidate into a single desk buying scenario - thereby taking competition out of the buying of primary food supplies from the farming community. Are we now just throwing good money after bad - meaning that if there is a new source of injection of capital into the primary industry that the 'buyers' are only going to gobble it up (as happened in the early days of BSE?)and the farmers are no better off in the end?
- What will happen when the 'needs and priorities' of the Government change and this money is funnelled off into other projects(maybe outside the ag community). This happened in the late '80's early 90's when the Government imposed a 'temporary' excise tax on fuel - which was fully refundable upon application to the farming community - to lower the Cdn debt. The refundable portion was eliminated after about 3 years, the debt is under control(we hope), and when farmers were hurting this summer because of high fuel prices, no mention was made by Goodale to eliminate that portion of the Excise Tax.
- I feel that if our Ag leaders even consider engaging in talks about this topic they had better walk very carefully (like on eggshells) because history could come back to haunt us BIG TIME !!!!! I feel the Government has the financial ability already to support Canadian Agriculture if only the 'will' is there to do so.

[silverback]

One of the major problems that shows up with the gov't programs no matter what kind, is that as soon as you try and put more cash in farmers pockets they are suddenly victimized by rising input costs or lower commodity prices. I will never be a big basher of the business community, as they employ the people that eat our food, but it is sometimes very discouraging to see massive profits going on for some people when the producer is fighting off massive debts and no alternatives to buying their products (Agrium, Encana, Monsanto). I know we are in a world market for all that we buy and produce, but being the only one in the chain that cannot benefit to a small degree is really sad.

It has been said around these communities for years, but how hard would it be to have a "Bread Tax" at the grocery till?? It amazes me to see the price of the high end bread in the stores and it is flying off the shelves. Why not 5 or 10 cents on a $3.00 loaf of bread?? You would think with the bloated beaurocracy in Ottawa or the CWB that it would be easy enough to transfer that cash back to the farmers that are actually producing the wheat?? I would sure support the CWB if they would embark on that kind of program instead of trying to put farmers in jail.

How about a "Choice Matters" program to help farmers in Alberta?? Oh yeah we have that, or do we??

[silverback]

I don't agree with a tax on food, that tax will be paid by those who can least afford it, the working poor, seniors on fixed incomes etc.

[silverback]

It would also be paid by millions that could afford it. Seniors and very poor people are already exempt from many fees and taxes, it would not be a stretch to exempt them from something like a food tax.

What is the alternative at the moment? We have the cheapest food in the world and small farmers are disapearing. If the goal is to have 5 or 6 farmers farming an entire township, then lets let everyone know and get on with it. I am sure the colonies would be in favor of that, come to think of it, maybe small farmers would be better off to join up with the Hutterites.

[silverback]

seniors and low income folks still pay GST when the purchase goods and services, they receive a rebate quarterly, but any tax on food would still have to be paid upfront.
As a producer I would certainly not want to see those in the above categories have to show some sort of card at the time of purchase as that would be demeaning >
I think there are better ways of dealing with assistance to the agricultural industry. CAIS is a joke and any other programs don't seem to have helped much.

[mb_rancher]

Does anyone on here really think that we being farmers and ranchers would ever really benefit financially from GST on Food? Or would it be a way for the govt. to fill its pockets even fuller?

[cowman]

Well I suspect the government would syphon off a good portion! Got to keep the party hacks happy you know!
I suspect also if there was a "bread tax" of say 5 cents the millers would just pay less and therefore collect the 5 cents? Isn't that how it always works? If grain goes up you can bet the next year fertilizer/spray will go up...or that has always been my experience?
If we had a government that was committed to seeing the primary producer get his fair share, then we would have policies reflect that? So for instance if cull cow prices rose to a decent level they wouldn't open the door to cheap imports? The cheap food policy is alive and well in Canada and the government supports it in a big way! Afterall we couldn't expect the public to pay for food when they have more important things to spend their money on...like boats, RVs, exotic vacations, a lavish home and all the toys! That is the Canadian way!