how do you stop bulls fighting

[haller]

i have 3 bulls that don't want to stop fighting and if tired or fixing wire. anybody have any ideas.

[rkaiser]

If you can handle the smell,,,, by a big old hairy Billy Goat. He'll tune em in.

[15444]

Agreed. Either buy a good old billy goat or keep the best of the three and ship the other 2, and then buy a yearling next spring so that you can start keeping bulls the care-free way by maintaining a good age difference between the oldest bull and the 2nd oldest. If there is one old dominant male and every knows it, the other's won't bother to fight. Works for us and others.

[haller]

just curious how does the billy goat work

[mb_rancher]

build a nice big steel bull pen and let them in there sooner or later they ll figure out who the boss is.

[ALLFARMER]

I have been told if you tie a billy goat to a bull eventually the goat will lead the bull around.

[cowman]

When I was a kid we always had a big pen of about 30 bulls. My grandfather had a billy goat in with them. When any of them started getting on the fight that old billy was right there to enjoy the fun! Not much fun having a goat slam you in the ribs when you are focussing on fighting another bull! That goat lived to fight and was always ready for a good go around!

[rkaiser]

Had a big stinky billy for a few years and he did a whale of a job. Brought home a new cocky Black Limo bull from a sale and dumped him in a fairly small pen with two mature Bulls and El Stinko. Went for a walk up the hill confidently knowing everthing would be cool. The friend with me asked about the smacking noise coming from the pen. As we got back close enough to see the young Black bull was backed up against the water trough with El Stinko threatening him with another wack on the forhead from his impressive 2 1/2 foot spread and all of his 200 plus pounds.

If the big bulls would fight, you're right cowman, he'd join in the fun. Diggin in their ribs or givin their nuts a nasty scratch with those antlers.

Only two problems with a goat. Hard to keep em in a pen (and off truck hoods) and they stink to high heaven.

Good Luck

[cowman]

15444 mentions a solution that works also? The real ugly fighting takes place when bulls are pretty evenly matched? If you run multi-bull pastures keeping a good age difference works very well? For example a three year old and a yearling? The three year old will do the majority of the work but the yearling will pick up the slack around the edge!
I never keep a bull longer than a three year old. The economics of rapid turn over are there if done right...in normal times? Not now.
I get all kinds of flack here for suggesting my system might work for the commercial man...but here goes anyway!
AI your top ten cows to the breed of your choice with the characteristics you are looking for. Expect 8 calves? Expect 4 bulls? Choose two. Don't feed them out heavy...in fact run them out with the cows all winter.
By spring you will have a yearling bull that isn't all that great to look at. The first year he doesn't accomplish a lot but by year two he is getting the job done. Use him in year three and ship him.
So you take a $750 calf, add $150 for the first winter? Now you have a $850 yearling? Pasture the first breeding year at $100 and another $150 for second winters feed...so now you have a two year old for $1100? Again pasture and winter feeding brings you to the third year...now you have a three year old for $1350? Use him for 2 months at $30/month and sell him? You have a total of $1410 in him. Pre BSE youthful bulls regulary brought over 70 cents a pound, so if he weighed 2000 lb. you are breaking even? Getting your bull for free?
Using this method you will also be assured his mother had good temperment, good udder, good feet. Feeding him you will not have foot and leg problems or any fertility problems. If you don't like his first calves you get rid of him with no loss?
Now consider the alternative? You buy a yearling at $2500. By two years old you have $2750 in him? By three $3000? You sell him after breeding and you have $3060 in him...and get $1400? So you don't have $1660 in your pocket, that you could have had?
The purebred industry likes to convince you that they have all the superior cows but this is not reality? There are commercial cows out there that are probably a lot better than any grand champion. In any decent sized herd there is probably enough genetic diversity when you are using AI that inbreeding won't likely be much of a problem?

[rkaiser]

cowman - cowman - cowman.

[nicolaas]

One of the best bulls I ever used was a bull that we raised out of our commercial herd. He is deep and long. I kept him and 10 other bulls intact till they were 10 months old, and then picked the best one. We have used him for 3 years now and he puts the other purebred bulls I run to shame. I suppose it is because most purebred people feed their bulls 14 lbs of grain /day, leading to disappointment when the bulls are exposed to "real life" when they get to the ranch. I would not feel so bad shelling out $3000.00 for a bull if it was not obese and I could actually see some traits when they were yearlings, but I guess that is the trend. Just go to any purebred show these days. You can hide any imperfections with feed it seems.

[cowman]

Well Randy, what can I say? It was getting pretty dead in here...
Now I'll defend the purebred industry...The fact is if they bring bulls to town, not fed to be big, they usually get kicked in the butt! The "well fitted" bulls usually bring the most money! And hey lets face it when you have cows that are worth $2 or 3 thousand each and herd bulls worth a small fortune you'd better be getting a real premium on the calf or you won't be in business very long? On top of that consider the high fees the breed associations charge and all the extra BS you have to go through to promote and sell your product? In the end it isn't some guaranteed road to riches...far from it!
Top that off with having to compete with all the wealthy playboys, who are in it for the glory and couldn't care less if they ever made a dime, and you have a pretty tough old business.

[rkaiser]

Just about as many "playboys" in the commercial business these days as well cowman. Corporate welfare is making it hard to stay away. Land is and mostly has been a good investment, and what better way to use it than to put some of those good old "herd inventory" cows on it.Where do you think a big bunch of those high priced purebred, and now even crossbred, bulls are destined.

Okay cowman, I'll bite yer bait on the purebred thing.

How can I say you are wrong when Soderglen, and many more, are pumping out those crossbred crossbred bulls for more money than most purebred sales. More people than you see merit in a GOOD LOOKING animal.LOL. One of the main reasons that I beleive in purebred cattle is direction. Uniformity and consistancy will be hard to acheive if the industry moves toward the unpredictable genetics of crossbred cattle. I know cowman, your calves look good, and if they aren't consistant, so what. They can be matched up in goups and sold in the market to 3 or 4 different buyers. If, however you or anyone else is looking to integrate into a market like a lot are these days, consistancy, all of a sudden, becomes an important issue. Genetic potential can only be "stamped" with purebred cattle.

I doubt if you have talked that forward thinkin son of yours into keeping too many of your homesteader bulls cowman, but if you have, power too you. I think your post, and arguement have more to do with price and costs than purebred vs. homesteader, and that part I will agree with. There are likely more good bulls sold every year for decent prices than you might imagine. And I question your gamble of keeping that one calf and making your whole scheme work financially. Somehow we end up culling quite a few of these darn purebred bulls by the time they reach sale time at two years old. One more factor you seem to have left out of your equation where we are making big money on poor buggars like you selling $2500.00 purebred bulls?

[cowman]

Well I think I pointed out that you aren't making big money selling $2500 bulls? The numbers just aren't there?
But like you said I am selling a commodity, not a niche product? And as such the cheaper I do it the more money in my pocket. I don't see the regular market paying for consistency or a pedigree? In fact I believe it is moving away from that in a big way!
Crossbred calves usually outsell straighbred calves everytime in the market? And pre-sort calf sales are more efficient than regular sales? The day when the rancher got up and gave a spiel about what good well bred cattle he has and how good he treats them are pretty well gone because frankly no one cares!
Obviously the feedlots have this figured out or they wouldn't be doing it? Does it really pay to go the extra mile and breed a "consistant" product? Age verify them and have them on a health program like "Pfizer Gold"? From what I have seen the market doesn't compensate you.
We are all so worried about how we can shave a few bucks off the feed bill? We have become obsessed with that. The fact is there are many ways to lower costs and to increase production? The biggest bang for your buck anyone will get is to cross breed and get some hybrid vigor into those cattle!
At the main farm I have an outdoor wood fired stove that heats the shop, house etc. Takes about one half hour a day in the winter to tend to. And yep in the heifer corral the water tank is heated with a wood heater...I would guess it takes about ten minutes a day. A few on here take great delight implying I am some sort of dinosaur for not getting with the times and installing an electric/gas set up...well I know both will work and I sure enjoy those extra dollars in my pocket! The cow herd drinks for free out of the springs.
Bottom line is this: If anyone intends to stay in this "commodity" business and deal with the Cargills and Tysons of this world you had better figure out how to cut costs and keep production at the max...or you won't be able to compete. Pretty simple?