U.S. to Open Border to All Cnd. Cattle

[farmers_son]

“Maybe the [MCOOL] proposed in the USA is in fact protectionist…” Darn sure it is protectionist. It is nothing less than apartheid for beef with the U.S. beef promoted as white and all other beef painted as black. Producers on both sides of the border will spend millions trying to convince consumers their national beef is best while the packers sit back and cash the cheques.

I agree with your comments about erasing the border. It may take some convincing south of the border however. And thinking beyond MCOOL; protectionism in the larger picture, producer against producer, is not working to improve the situation of North American cattle producers. Our problem is not the producer in Montana or North Dakota, their problem is not us. The problem is the packers and until such time as attention is diverted away from border issues to the real problem of unfair bids for live slaughter cattle our problems are not likely to improve.

[cowman]

Well I may be wrong but I thought the packers were fighting MCOOL in a big way? I don't think they relish the idea of not being able to source cattle or beef that needs to be seperated from the US cattle?
What is an unfair bid? You put up a product for sale and anyone who wants it can buy it. If you don't like the price you don't sell it! If you think you can do it better than Cargill/Tyson then I guess you go that route?
Isn't that really what all these new producer type plants are about?
Companies like Cargill/Tyson are pretty tough players...that is how they got where they are today. It's called business? You operate for the biggest profit possible within the rules! You can't blame companies for doing their best? If the rules aren't fair you need to address the rule makers not the people trying to operate a business.

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son-- I think it would be a hell of a lot better spending money promoting your own countries cattle and beef than what is happening now- millions being spent to run each others cattle and beef down- with each country trying to keep the others out of their country ...But you can't promote and advertise your beef until it is identified and labeled.....

And the North American beef idea will not fly in the US- that was shown when even the NCBA membership almost revolted at their convention and their President had to take the TV and apologize saying "we weren't listening to our members."

[farmers_son]

Cowman: What is an unfair bid? I would say when the packers are selling UTM and OTM beef for record prices but the live slaughter price versus carcass basis is as much as $400 wider (for cows) than historically I think it could be said the bids are unfair.

Live cattle are a perishable product. It is not reasonable to say that we put up our animals for sale and you do not sell if you do not like the price. Fat steers and heifers have to be sold within a relatively small window of time. We can only hang onto cull cows for just so long before selling them no matter the price. If nothing else cash flow demands force us to sell whether the price is fair or not. The packers know this and collude to lower prices in order to increase their profitability.

Ok, Cargill and Tyson are tough players. And we can either continue to accept their artificially low prices for our live cattle or we can start to operate for the biggest profit possible by understanding the rules and using them to actually realize better returns for our production. Cargill and Tyson are not just going to hand over some of their profitability to producers because they are nice guys. Producers need to be able to force the packers to pay fair prices by using business rules themselves. No white knight is going to come into our market and create competition and fair pricing for us. We have to do it ourselves. We really have no other choice.

Willowcreek: I agree that North American beef is a tough sell in the U.S. As producers we need to avoid confusion about beef and cattle. We do not produce beef the packers do.

But would you agree that cheap live cattle in Canada would act to drag down U.S. live prices. I think you would agree with that.

Look at it like this. The present situation could be compared to two patrons of a bar having a fist fight over a girl while the packer slips out the side door with the young lady of interest. We can either continue to duke it out or we open our eyes and realize that the packer is dating all the pretty Profit girls while we are exchanging blows and do something about it.

I know it is a stretch to suggest there could be advantages to producers not fighting with producers and that trade and international cooperation could actually increase our individual farm profitability but it is something I think needs to be considered. I am suggesting that the surest way to raise live cattle prices in the U.S. is to raise live cattle prices in Canada. Working to raise your live prices by stopping trade with Canada through various protectionist measures in effect creates a pool of cheaper live cattle here in the longer terms works to limit live prices in your market.

The best way and the surest way to increase your live prices is not to put up protectionist barriers which do not work but to encourage policies on both sides of the border that will see the price of our live cattle mirror yours. Once that happens Canadian live cattle are no longer a source of cheaper competition.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

QUIOTE "The best way and the surest way to increase your live prices is not to put up protectionist barriers which do not work but to encourage policies on both sides of the border that will see the price of our live cattle mirror yours. Once that happens Canadian live cattle are no longer a source of cheaper competition."
What an intelligently written closing comment from a truly blind and ignorant Canadian who can not or will not see anything from the other persons point of view.
Helen Keller wrote in her biography
The World I Live how she pitied those that had sight but could not see.
This individual truly needs to be pitied.
I am disappointed in myself that I am responding to this sad comment. However I think that this individuals comments reflect a mindset that I would like to address. I do so because have heard these comments from other Canadian producers.
Obviously this individual is making his comments through a worldview of self interest. If something is good for him then it must be the right thing for the rest of the world.

This comment reinforces my initial assertation that Canadian beef producers feel that they have a God given right to American markets and American money.

I do not think that you Canadian beef producers realize the true and unfortunate situation that you are in.
You have a very poor ag economy with a federal government that does not care about you. You have lost lucrative export markets and the market economy has forced you to look at alternative markets. You some extreme NEEDS. You NEED to sell the production from you land and livestock. Where is the easiest market to sell into. The good old USA. Please try to recognize that the NEED is all yours. That is how you see the world. You have a very self serving attitude. Because you need to have have your cattle exported into other countries developed markets you would like to see the whole world run by rules that fit your NEEDS.

I think that free trade is fine, but you Canadians do not seem to make such a fuss if the value of your currency is lower making it more difficult to buy American and giving you an advantage in export markets. You seem to leave that little factor out of your comments.

The sad part about your self serving outlook on American markets and your right to access them is that in focusing completely on these problems you fail to realize your true difficult situaion and also great potential and you fail to see how you might try to meet real market needs.

The main reason the Canadians producers are in such a difficult spot is that they fail to see what the political and economic realities are in Canada. Canadian producers need to realize the new realities and then find new products and new markets and work towards a new economy.

Candians had a great success for quite some time with their Canola oil which replaced softer wheat markets. Yes, over time world competition took that advantage away. But this was an example where Canadians led the way in meeting market needs instead of just saying that we have this beef and NEED to sell it somewhere.

Remember, markets are not formed from your NEEDS but from the markets needs.
I am sorry to inform such an obviously intelligent writer as yourself that the world does not revolve around your NEEDS.

[JD4ME]

typically American attitude don't see the world as it is see it as you are told it is.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

Of course there is some truth to your comments. Still you the reality is--
You NEED to sell your beef. Americans have quite enough of their own and do not really need to buy yours.
I know about the plank in my own American eye. Still I know that I have a large American market to sell my cattle into. I do not really need to worry about export market markets, although I would benefit from them and I consider my self a free trader.

Can you see past the plank in your Canadian eye and the Canadian problem and maybe try to find solutions?

[cowman]

Ted: When Canada and the USA signed the free trade deal, we actually did gain the RIGHT to sell into your market? Just like you gained the RIGHT to sell into ours?
The free trade deal goes way beyond some little spat over cows! Without a doubt it has been good for both countries?
The dollar thing can be a problem I will admit. However our dollar has risen pretty sharply in the last few years and in reality it is probably pretty close to being fair right now? The rise in our dollar is due to two things: The increased costs of our oil and gas in the American market and quite frankly the USA economy performing very badly in relation to your costs? You can't afford to fight an insane war half way across the world!
How many hundreds of billions have you wasted in Iraq?
I will agree with you that Canada has a surplus of grain and a surplus of cattle. The Canadian producer can produce cheaper than the US farmer for quite a few reasons. The lack of subsidies has forced us to become mean and lean...unlike our American counterpart!
The Canadian farmer was forced to diversify into livestock because US and European subsidies stold all the export grain markets! And now the Americans are using trade harassments to try to stop competition in meat...that their own grain subsidies created!
The fact is we have a deal with the USA and they are trying to welch on that deal? I wonder, do you like to do business with someone who doesn't live up to an agreement? Is that fair?
If Canada retaliated, even briefly, and cut off the oil,gas, and electricity for two weeks, we could bring you to your knees...literally! Fortunately for you we are not going to do that, because we do believe in free trade and want this thing to work!
It is unfortunate that a few small interest groups like R-CALF and the lumber lobby continue to create these trade spats to fill their greedy agendas, with no regard for the big picture? Make no mistake...NAFTA has been very good for every country involved.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

Cowman
I agree that NAFTA has been good for both sides.
The Iraq comment was not useful for this discussion. In previous comments I have let my viewpoints on Canadian gays and Vancouver drug addicts be known. You haven't got a lot to be proud of either. At least we are trying.

Subsides are damaging. There are some signs that the Europeans are cutting back on subsidies. The Canadians have really been the victims of the subsidy war to the same extent you were the beneficiaries of the Cold War agricultural economics.

Don't confuse lack of domestic markets with agricultural efficiency.

I myself have mentioned the oil and gas option. My point however was to encourage my resourceful Canadian friends to attempt to find new markets. The real resource is fertile land, rain and human resources. Try to produce something that someone NEEDS, not just look at their markets and try to think how you could take some of that away.
R-CALF is a bit of a problem. However Canadians have to realize that NAFTA or no NAFTA, when you are trying to push your surplus into a country that does not need your product and has its own supply industry, that problems will occur. Canada is especially needful of convenient export markets. It is incumbent upon Canadian producers to attempt to find products that they have a distinct advantage in producing and that there is a need for. California has distinct ag advantages. Some types of fruit are not convenient for Canadians to produce unless in greenhouses.
What can Canadians provide to us that we do need and can not supply ourselves? Energy is a good example. Why kill this successful export to shore up your exports that we do not need.
Canadians choose your opponents well. You are starting to think like oppressive Americans with that line of thinking. [Cutting energy exports to force your hand with beef]
Instead try to find new markets and products.
Some resourceful thinking may be needed as well as financing from government and banks. However, without new markets, you will be forced to find new things to do with your land.
Strip mine for coal, grow trees for poles etc, produce hay for export, etc.

Canadians have a huge amount of land and resources. Get your scientists working and finding new things to produce and export.
NAFTA and free trade does open doors to cross border commerce. However there will always be resistance if the imports to a country do not meet a need and actually conflict with successful local industries already in place. It’s a wonder there is not a lot more resistance to Canadian beef.
Cheers and good luck.

[silverback]

Are there any U.S. products that flow north that should be stopped if Canada follows the logic you are giving us??

Corn? Cheese? Soybeans? Vegetables?

Your Willowcreek is mad your cows are asked to be tested, we have enough cows, why not keep yours down there?