U.S. to Open Border to All Cnd. Cattle

[Willowcreek]

Remember 2006 is an election year in the US with many important midterm elections- And some of the pro big business- pro world trade advocate Congressmen are riding on shakey ground with the changing nationwide tide of the voters... backlash against the trade deficit, rising inflation, and the profiteering of Big Business, like the oil companies... Then take in to effect that the US Senate already voted against the USDA's previous plan to open to OTM beef or cattle....And I've seen nothing new in the science of BSE since that vote....

Also many more scientific questions concerned with the OTM's-especially the pre feedban ones, that still exist and haven't been answered...Much will depend on what USDA's proposal is as to whether its beef or live cattle- and how they propose to segregate out pre-feedban cattle--but I'm sure it will be challenged...The U.S. feedban safeguards are not strict enough to allow importing live cattle from a country with a higher percentage rate of BSE......Remember the USDA scientists testified to Congress that the U.S. #1 safeguard against BSE was/is the restrictions we have on importing from BSE countries......

This along with more cattle producers daily realizing that R-CALF was right about how much the Canadian cow market influences the US cull prices... Lots of people getting used to selling their culls for $700-800 and don't want to go right back to the pre-BSE days of $300-400...

Not a betting man MR, but I don't think you will see live cattle in 2006.....

[kato]

I'm not betting on it either.

It won't be opened without a fight. R-Calf has tunnel vision regarding Canadian cattle, and for as long as the organization is in existence, it will continue to grasp at reasons to close the border. If it wasn't BSE, it would be something else. This is what they were set up to do, and need us to justify their anti-trade agenda.

One way trade is the only acceptable kind of trade to these people, and we may as well get used to it.

After the border is opened, they'll sit down, have a meeting, and come up with some new way to make things miserable for the Canadian cattle producers.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I'm afraid this is not going to be easy.

[mb_rancher]

I would like to see the border open to OTM cattle but I would like to our slaughter capacity for OTM grow here in Canada. Be better to send you a boxed beef product than a live animal.

[Willowcreek]

Today 11/18/2005 7:08:00 PM


NCBA Statement On Cattle Trade With Canada



“Yesterday, NCBA ‘s animal health scientist Dr. Gary Weber joined me in representing U.S. cattlemen at a meeting in Canada to continue pushing for science-based resolution of all animal health issues between the two countries. The meeting included leading officials from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Canadian Cattlemen’s Association and USDA’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.



“NCBA and its state affiliates have been frustrated by the lack of access to the Canadian market for U.S. feeder and breeding cattle. While progress has been made to open the Canadian border to the movement of feeder cattle year-round, significant barriers still exist to the movement of breeding cattle.



“That said, progress was made at this week’s meeting. We expect resolution on Canada’s restrictions on bluetongue for all classes of U.S. cattle to end by mid-2006, after completion of an ongoing risk assessment project. On anaplasmosis, NCBA and APHIS made clear at the meeting the United States’ expectation is that any risk mitigation measures are science-based and allow for expanded cattle trade into Canada.



“NCBA will not support advancing resumption of trade with Canada on cattle over 30 months until science-based harmonization is achieved on all animal health issues. There has been discussion about such a rule in media reports this week despite the fact that a proposed rule has not been introduced by USDA. As with every rule-making process, there will be an opportunity for comment. When such a proposal is published, NCBA will maintain the need for harmonization to ensure fair trade between the two countries.



“NCBA’s commitment to free trade is well-documented, and we speak with great credibility on this issue. Normalization of trade is our goal, but normalization is a two-way street and can only be achieved if trade provisions are equitable.



“NCBA will continue to encourage the USDA to make science-based decisions relative to trade of beef and cattle. NCBA will never favor any change in trade policy that threatens our herd health or the safety of our food supply. We do not feel that Canadian cattle pose any such threat, and it is irresponsible to suggest otherwise. However, Canada’s restrictions on U.S. breeding stock and feeder cattle - especially those related to anaplasmosis and bluetongue – have placed undue hardship on America’s cattle producers for too long. NCBA will continue to be at the table to fight for equitable trade for U.S. cattlemen.



“Earlier this year, NCBA was instrumental in convincing USDA to limit both live cattle and boxed beef imports from Canada to 30 months of age and younger. Our producer-members adopted this policy based on sound science and in the interest of fair trade.”

[farmers_son]

In Canada, we have learned that the U.S. pursues policies regarding the importation of beef and live cattle that are based on what is in the best interest of the United States rather than any particular interpretation of science. The reality is if science ruled the day the border would have been open in 2003.

As such if we are trying to hazard a guess as to when the border really might open to OTM we need to consider the question in terms of what is best for the U.S. and leave out the question of science as science, especially the science of BSE, is open to interpretation by all beef trading countries.

So what is in the United States’ best interest? I think it is in the best interest of the United States to see OTM trade resume with Canada within 6 months of trade resuming with Japan. It is not in the best interest of the United States to see Canada develop an independent packing plant industry that would be able to offer genuine competition to American packers. It is in the best interest of the United States to see our live cattle flow into the U.S. so that the resulting value adding can occur on their side of the border. It is in the best interest of the United States to advocate an on again, off again North American beef market that keeps politically influential Canadian cattle producers dancing to the tune of the U.S. government.

R-Calf is just a tool. So are the U.S. courts. And for that matter BSE testing, at least in the United States, is being used as a political tool instead of an objective measure of the incidence of BSE in the United States.

The border will open when it darn well suits the United States of America. Not one day sooner but not one day later. No matter what R-Calf says. When the United States have gotten everything they need, when they have sucked the heart out of the Canadian cattle producer, when they have taught those pesky Canadians who were getting notions they were a sovereign independent country a lesson on international relations, then and only then the border will open wide.

However Canadian cattle producers would be wise to look a little further ahead, beyond the day when the border might be opened by the Americans, whether that day comes sometime in 2006 or not.

Canadian cattle producers need to look even beyond that date to another date. The day when the border is going to be closed the next time. Because sure as the sun comes up that border will close again. The real question is will we be prepared when that happens or will we just take it like we did this last time.

At some point we need to do what is in our best interest instead of what is the U.S. best interest.

[kato]

I agree 100%.

On another note, I understand the Japanese have or are soon sending inspectors to Canada and the U.S. to see how we manage our slaughter procedures.

Has anyone heard of what their opinions are? What if we passed and the U.S. failed? It's a scenario I believe is very possible, if not likely. Especially with the agressive stance the CFIA has taken over the past two years in the approach to such things.

Now wouldn't that be ironic???

What would the American response to that be?

[gwf]

Very good post Farmers_Son. Little attention is likely to be given to when the next shoe will drop. There is no doubt it will and it will be easier next time. The US has demonstrated with the Soft Wood Lumber dispute that they are able to get away with anything that will suite the US and there is very little anyone that is adversely affected can do about it. The Japanese will determine the movement of Canadian livestock products into the US. The importation of Canadian beef to the US will be decided by the perception the Japanese have of US beef health and safety standards and not necessarily by the more superior health and safety of Canadian beef. It is highly unlikely that the Japanese will import Canadian beef and bypass the US. Eighty plus percent of Canadian beef is already Americanized before it leaves this country. The monopoly that the US packers have on the Canadian beef supply precludes us from having anything to say about where our beef goes.

[kpb]

I also believe that farmers_son in correct in his post but I think we have to take it a little further. Prior to BSE we all believed that the U.S. market would always be open to our beef--in fact we never really even thought about it, we just accepted it as a given.

Post BSE and the American border being closed we all now realize that we cannot take the open border for granted and, in fact, it is quite clear that not only can the border be closed with no notice whatsoever but it can also remain closed for an extended period of time at the whim of the U.S. and with no recourse from Canada.

That realization changes everything in our business forever and is the reason why many people are having dispersals and getting out of the cattle business in this country. My backgrounding operation can have $700,000 plus in feeders at any one time, and half that again with our grassers. If the border closes at any day, with no warning, that inventory goes down in value by half overnight. And that doesn't even count the loss in value of our cow herd. That worry was never there, or at least we didn't know it was there prior to BSE but it will never go away now.

We have not bought calves this fall, the first time we haven't in many years. And, yes, the price is high in my opinion relative to the fats. But the real reason, I think, is that I've lost my nerve because the risk/reward ratio just does not work. I do not think it will work again as long as the border issue remains. To make, say $30 a head profit to background with a potential loss of hundreds of thousands if the border closes simply does not make sense.

I do not think this issue can be resolved because the U.S. has all the power. But I do think that you will see a Canadian cattle industry over the next 10 years that looks a lot different than what we're used to. You will see backgrounders and feedlots either solely owned or partnered with packers because that is the only way they can manage the risk of losing their market. And you will see a smaller number of ranchers overall. I recently put some of my southern ranch up for sale and learned yesterday that my neighbour is doing the same. We are the two biggest cattle people in this area and, I suspect, are not alone in not seeing a happy future for our industry.


kpb

[kpb]

kpb, I am hearing the same comments from feeding operations in my area. I would assume that custom lots are in the same boat.

[GodLovesTheUSA]

I am wasting my time again by commenting on this website. If I did not care about your Canadian situation I would not even bother to look at this website. Please keep in mind that I am a free trader. We all benefit from increased cooperation and trade.

However I sense in some of the comments in this thread that Canadians think that they have a God given right to sell their products in the USA.

What you so often forget, is the matter of need. How blind the Canadians are when they do not realize that we Americans do not need their beef. Free enterprise is all about need and supply. I need something and I want someone to supply it to me if I can not supply it myself.

The problem with American beef is that the need is all on the Canadian side of the border. You Canadians have surplus land and grass and grain and you need to do something with it.
Everyone wants American money and so you think that "Wouldn't it be nice to sell your surplus to your American friends.?"
The problem is you need to sell. We do not need to buy.
Oh, I know that there are packing plants in the Northern states that benefit from Canadian beef, but for the most part we do not need your beef as much as your water and oil and energy.

But just because we need your energy etc. you rednecks think that you can stuff your beef down our throats.

Don't get me wrong. I know that you have good beef. Its just that I do not need it.

You Canadians have a big problem that you are not facing. You have lost a lot of your export markets for your grain and you think that you can just take the grain land and use it for cattle production and force your surplus cattle into another countries markets. And in case you have not noticed, you have a lot of surplus.

In your desperation you fail to see that you need to produce something that someone needs, not just something that you NEED to sell. Once again the need is all on your side of the border.

Surely there must be something that you can supply that someone else NEEDS.

I am repeating myself here, but I feel that some corrections need to be made. You think that Americans are self serving. Not so.
If you have something that we need, Americans will spend big bucks and outbid the rest of the world for it.

Americans buy a great deal from Canadians on a daily basis, and you buy a great deal from us. Beacuse you need it.

Just try to find something that we need. Maybe you should be using that excess land to produce methanol or something like that. We will be your best customers.
Try to analyze where the need is. Maybe it is the Canadians who are desparate and self serving, in trying to cut into the American market with your surplus. Its a hard way to make a living boys.
Good Luck!!

[gwf]

GodLovesTheUS: You have hit the nail on the head. I agree with you 100%. You don’t need our beef, so why are we Canadians getting all rapped up in trying to cater to a market that has been saying this for years? The only reason is that the US market has the infrastructure already established and can be easily accessed, and we are too naïve to look beyond the US. The US is and has been self-sufficient in beef products.

[cowman]

I think you missed the point Ted? It isn't about what you need, it is about what you want? And a blanket statement about what America "needs" or "wants" isn't reality?
Obviously Tyson and Cargill "want" our cattle? Obviously the California steak houses "want" our product? And obviously the people who exported Canadian beef as "product of the USA" wanted our beef?
I do agree with you that we have too many cattle up here, but who caused that? Wasn't it your own US government who subsidized your grain farmers to such an extent that they froze us out of the world grain market? And quite frankly your farmers need to be subsidized because they can't compete on a level playing field?
In another area...softwood lumber? Do you "need" our lumber? I would suggest that many American home owners would say yes? Why pay thousands more for a home so some American fat cat lumber man can make billions!

[kpb]

Actually, GodLovesTheUSA is completely wrong in his post. The reason that the U.S. border is not wide open right now is because there is too much need (demand) for Canadian beef, not too little. If there was no demand for Canadian beef in the U.S. there would be no action by R-Calf or any other group because they would have nothing to lose by opening the border. Instead we see actions by protectionist groups all the time--why???--because they are scared to let our beef in because they realize, in fact, that there is good demand (need) for it.


Now no Canadian cattleman has said that we should have some sort of special access to U.S. markets, we just want to be able to sell our product there like any other beef product. So my question to GodLovesTheUSA is, if there is no need (demand) in the U.S. for our beef why not throw the border wide open right now---if no one wants our beef what have you got to lose? And if there is really no demand for our beef in the U.S., then why have all the protectionist groups been fighting as hard as they can for the past two years to keep our product out?

It would seem to me that when a bunch of groups like R-Calf are fighting like crazy to keep us out, it indicates that they are scared. If there was no demand for our beef south of the border, why they'd have nothing to worry about would they? But the proof is in the pudding, and it is quite obvious that what they are really scared of is our superior product coming into the U.S. precisely because there is such a strong demand (need) for it.


kpb

[Willowcreek]

kbp- When they require Canada to label your beef all the way to the consumer- then I say let it come...Until then you are riding on the backs of a market that the US producer built...And many are getting tired of your free ride...

Most American consumers have no idea they have eaten Canadian beef-- in fact if questioned, most will say no..Because it all had a USDA stamp on it and was passed off as US beef...Are you afraid to require that your beef go into the market with a country of origin label?.... Must be because Canadian producers were one of the biggest groups that came out testifying against the mandatory COOL laws..

Canada started the cattle pissing match with their 10 years of rules against US cattle which were shown by numerous scientific studies to be groundless...Were Canadian cattle producers afraid of the US calves overfilling their feedlots-- that they had to be restricted.....

Remember how you all screamed that the US cattle herd was diseased?

But now enter BSE and the US puts on restrictions and all of a sudden you scream "BUT BUT BUT Its a North American herd!!!...

You can't have it both ways folks......

[kpb]

When it comes to wanting it both ways, the Americans take the cake. You guys scream free enterprise every time you want to get into a new market to sell your product and proclaim yourselves as the bastions of all that is right with capitalism and competition.

But let someone else want to have access to your market and compete on even terms with you, well, then you cry that it's just not fair and you have to protect your industry and your producers. What are you guys so afraid of? Why does a little competition scare you guys so much? Protectionism is on the rise in your country and it's because Americans are realizing that in the production of many goods they are simply not competitive anymore---they don't make the best products or the cheapest. If you're so confident in your product why are you also so protectionist?

It's surely a sign of being afraid of competition and shows the world that you think your beef just does not measure up to ours.


kpb