U.S. to Open Border to All Cnd. Cattle

[GodLovesTheUSA]

Canadian producers
Beware for the sake of your industry.
The previous poster is promoting stinking thinking that must be addressed. The writer’s twisted logic is dangerous and misleading. His comments are well written and presented in such as way that readers might think that he knows what he is talking about. In his posts there is a thread of truth. However the end logic will mislead the reader.
Example "There can be no doubt that the global packing industry uses lower live cattle prices in other countries to drive down domestic prices"
This statement is probably true and this is normal. You as cattle producers do the same thing on a smaller scale when you go to pruchase inputs such as hay and barley or corn. If you can buy out of province or state and get the corn cheaper you will use that information to lower the price locally. This is free enterprise.
I can assure you that the packers are not your enemies. If a cattle producing state does not have a large and aggressive packing plant, the prices will be lower in that state. When a modern packing plant is built in an area, it follows that the prices go up for cattle, not down.
The problem in Canada is huge oversupply. I would guess that you are consuming domestically less than half of the beef your country produces. If Americans did that the cattle market would collapse.

THIS (your) overproduction drives down prices and gives free opportunity to packing plants to pay less.

The Canadian mindset does not want to even think that they are overproducing. A more realistic scenario might be having a cattle herd that can meet domestic needs and can export 10% extra. But what would you do with all of the extra land etc that you have no domestic markets for. Therein lies your problem. Too much land and not enough market.

The large American owned packing plants are not your enemies. They will take advantage of the present economic situation just like you will. I would encourage you to build co operative plants if you fee that they can compete.

More packing plants will not help your situation. The real problem is oversupply. Either find something else to produce at a profit or go work in your oil industry. There are other ways to make a living.
NAFTA does give inroads into the American market for cattle and lumber, (as well as oil) but if you are in a position where you are pushing over supply into a foreign market, you will continue to be vulnerable.
Try to find something we need, not just something you NEED to produce.
Packers are not your enemy. Oversupply is a reality in the free market place.
The free market place will handle a certain amount of oversupply but not as much as your country is producing.
It is oversupply that is pushing down your prices. Which one of your wants to reduce his herd size first?

[farmers_son]

You seem threatened by my comments? I do not understand that as I am suggesting solutions to chronically low producer returns that would improve the situation for U.S. producers as well as Canadian producers. I agree when you say the packers are not our enemies. But they are in competition for the consumer’s food dollar. Every dollar we receive is a dollar less they receive. And since they are global multinational giants and we are individual family farm producers (whether here or in the U.S.) it is not surprising that the packers win the battle for any profits that are to be had.

Regarding overproducing… as if supply and demand is the problem. It is not. We are not pushing product into a foreign market. The wholesale price of beef is at record high prices both here and in the United States. If anything we see packing plants close their doors because of not enough live cattle. But the perception that an imported animal or box of beef is a threat to domestic producers seems deeply entrenched. The real threat lies elsewhere.

I would point out that the packing industry is not the same as a market characterized by many farmers buying corn or hay from other farmers. Many sellers and many buyers. Instead the live slaughter cattle market is characterized by many weak sellers and a few powerful buyers. It is not a market that operates state by state or by province or by country. Cargill, Tyson and others operate globally. Producers individually seeking domestic solutions directed against other producers instead of addressing the larger issue of unfair bids by packers will continue to be disappointed as we have already seen over the last decades.

[silverback]

You didn't respond to my comments USA.

If the US can consume all it produces, don't complain when you cannot ship to Japan or Korea.

[cowman]

Actually Ted is partly right about a lot of things. We do produce too much cattle and grain for our domestic market? Now we weren't in bed alone on this one...the American packing houses and feedlots sure gave us lots of encouragement!
You should be careful Ted when you say things like Cargill/Tyson are NOT evil...it doesn't play well here! I've been getting roasted for years suggesting the same thing!
But Ted, I don't have a solution? We are stuck up here with all this land and we've learned to produce like crazy, just to survive. Maybe ethanol will save our butts but I doubt it...you see we have the second biggest oil reserves in the world and the darned stuff is everywhere! Ethanol is a political game and quite frankly is a joke? It will never compete with oil in the real world...at least not in our lifetime?
I remember, probably about 15 years ago, I attended a "Pursuing Profits seminar". It was for cattle producers and one of the featured speakers was an American. His message was this: Canada can't compete with the US feedlot industry and subsidized grain and needs to sow the whole darned prairies down to grass and produce the calves for the American feedlot industry! At the time I thought he was nuts but now I don't know? Our grain is so cheap up here right now it is ridiculous and our grain farmers don't have the US government bankrolling them! I see more of them sowing down grass?
I have problems with farmers son's contention that we should be allowing more imported meat in from countries like Australia and South America? South America can produce beef for extremely low prices and who knows whats up with Australia? Apparently they have done some very shady deals in grain? And I agree with Willowcreek about COOL! We shouldn't have SA meat or Australian meat sitting on the shelf as Canadian or US product! If the consumer eats that crap and gets turned off our product...who do we have to blame?
I have no problem with Canadian beef being labelled Canadian beef in the US marketplace, and the same goes for American beef up here! If you are ashamed to label your product then maybe you need to question what you are producing?

[Willowcreek]

cowman-"I have no problem with Canadian beef being labelled Canadian beef in the US marketplace, and the same goes for American beef up here! If you are ashamed to label your product then maybe you need to question what you are producing?"

AMEN cowman- and its being honest with the consumer.......

[cowman]

Now I'm no expert on COOL but I do believe only a small portion of the beef we now send to the USA would be affected? The largest portion of our quality cuts go to the steak houses and the food service industry which isn't affected by COOL?
I guess when the cows start rolling it might be a problem if the hamburger was going to the supermarket, although not a problem if it was going to Macdonalds?
In my opinion the ideal situation would be if all Canadian product left Canada in a box stamped "product of Canada" and the American retailers could deal with it however they decided? We actually are pretty well to the point where this is possible, if not right now, within the next twelve months?
If all Canadian beef comes south in a box instead of on the hoof I can't see COOL causing much of a problem for Canada, but it sure is going to be tough on some American feedlots and packing houses? You have basically killed some value added jobs and given them to Canada?
R-CALF seems to take the position that these are low paying jobs that aren't worth the effort of keeping, however no matter how you cut it a packing house puts one hell of a lot of money into an area? Taxes, wages, supplys, utilities, transportation...it all adds up!
Americans often wonder what happened to their economy where their trade surpluses have shrunk? This is a classic example: You are outsourcing business to another country to protect an elite few...R-CALF. Your loss, our gain.

[farmers_son]

Before BSE we sent a lot of cows across the border too, there are only so many quality cuts on even a young animal. MCOOL is not about having our product labeled product of Canada. MCOOL is about legislated segregation, in effect Canadian beef has to sit at the back of the bus with the other colored folk. MCOOL is about keeping imported pork, beef, lamb and other covered products out of U.S. retail meat cases by imposing additional costs on these products. I have no problem with our beef being labeled Product of Canada, however you will not see Product of Canada in a retail meat cooler in the U.S., our product will simply not be there at all. I do have a problem with our beef being denied equal and fair access to all markets in the U.S.

I say it again, producers would do a whole lot better to lobby for fair packer pricing then to lobby for policies which ensure a cheap supply of live cattle beyond their border. Basically the live cattle trade of concern to us is between the U.S., Mexico and Canada. U.S. policies which serve to lower the price of live cattle in Mexico and Canada work in in the end to serve the packers interests.

[cowman]

I think you might be amazed how little of a cow carcass actually makes it into the grinder. All the boneless cuts go to the food service industry...which is exempt from COOL?
When I was young and worked at Canada packers, all the deboned cow meat went into the food service industry. The boneless meat all went to MacDonalds and the cuts all went to things like jerky, Subway, Mr. Mikes/Bonanza, Campbells soup, Swansons etc. Several small specialty cuts went to Japan, Jamaica, Taiwan. The diaphram(connects the lungs to the rib cage) actually went to Japan for $16/lb(1978 dollars!).! The tendon on the back leg(won ton soup) went to Taiwan for $9/lb.!
The economics of cow slaughter are actually quite good...probably much better than fat cattle?

[rkaiser]

It's always interesting to read the posts of "God loves the USA and the rest of the world can go to hell"

If this fool were to take his theory to his joke of a president, how long would you think it would take for him to be out on his righteous butt.

Trade is what makes the world go round. Countries like Canada that can produce excessively could truely be the way that all of the people on this planet could have a satisfying diet. Trade distruption for economic gains are the reasons that this is not allowed to happen, and the wonderful Christian led USA leads this money hungry charge.

Change your name to Hypocrite and I might back off an blasting your posts GLTUSA. BAAARF

[GodLovesTheUSA]

In Reply
Your Comments
“Trade is what makes the world go around.”
Reply
I agree. I am a free trader. I very well know that Canada is a very productive country with smart and capable producers producing a very good product.
My point was this-- Canada has lost former lucrative markets for hard spring wheat. Production has shifted to cattle and now Canada is oversupplying the domestic market by about 100%. This puts Canada in a vulnerable position. Even with NAFTA, local political forces in the importing country (any country) will likely be very concerned about this surplus (unless it is benefiting them somehow)
Canadian cattle producers (bless their red necks) seem to think that they can take an oil industry approach to production and export. The oil industry in Canada will produce as much as it can and export all of it to the US at world prices. This is because there is a need for the oil products in the market country.
The same mindset is established for beef production. Produce all you can and sell it to the US. The difference is that, in the case of beef we have an adequate supply good beef. NAFTA gives you access to the American market. You Canadians seem to rely on science and logic. Logic would seem to indicate that there will not be the same acceptance for beef (that we do not need) like there is for oil (that we do need). My suggestion is that Canadians have a huge resource with excess land and resources. Why not take the lead and produce something that the American market wants and needs?
You’re Comments
"If this fool were to take his theory to his joke of a president"
First of all, I know that I am a fool, the difference is I know it. I would look a long and hard look at producing a product that my market does not need just because my family has done that for 2 generations.
Further with the fool comment, I am a fool for Jesus Christ. Whose fool are you?
I know that I am a hypocrite as well. Each day I fall short of living for Christ. I can only rely on his forgiveness and grace.
I have voted for our joke of a president. Coming from a country that had a president like John Cretian, I find that comment out of place. I would say that the president of the United States of American (greatest country in the world) does have a greater responsibility and needs to make the right decisions, as our country affects most of the rest of the world.
I will be praying for you Kaiser, and at this time of year I pray that you might think of the miracle that happened, years ago. God, in His mercy, came to earth to be among man, knowing the cost would be a horrible death. The bible says that Jesus took the sins of the world onto himself, (elsewhere that Jesus became sin totally). God himself, in Jesus Christ has paid the penalty for your sins and mine. All that is needed is to believe and receive.

You Canadians rely on logic and science. Why do you not read the facts on the history of the Christian church and the life of Christ?

When each of us are on our death bed and looking back on our lives, I wonder who will think they were the biggest fools.?

[rkaiser]

Got nothing against Jesus Christ bud. What I can't deal with is fundamentalist christian humans that think their country is the best country in the world because of their religion. I compare them to many other religious fundamentalist who want to think that their way is the only way. Mixing money and religion is and always has been a volotile keg and I for one can not stand to even listen to it. I will try to refrain from responding to you from now on GLTUSA.

I say that George Bush is a joke for more reasons than his christian fundamentalist attitude. His Oil Crusades in the middle east are pathetic, and his ability to have fooled most of the world by blowing up the twin towers to start the crusade was criminal.

I agree with one thing, George and Bill, and Jean and Paul are the worst 4 leaders either of our countries have ever seen.

I'm sorry to say that I won't pray for you this Christmas GLTUSA,I don't pray. I certainly hope that you have a nice Christmas and that you and your family enjoy the peace that democracry and freedom allow people like you and I.