age verification?

[redcountry]

Are we going to be allowed to keep the birth dates in our herd book and put rfid tags on at weaning and still file the birth dates with ccia
My question is how long do we have, to file these dates?.
Each calf now gets a tag with dam ,birth date & sex at birth.

[cowman]

red country: That is what we did. Put in a dangle tag at birth, put in a RFID tag at weaning and sent in the data from the calving book. Got a nice letter from the CCIA thanking us for being so progressive! We'll see if there is any money in it down the road!

[kato]

Heck, we even submitted our 2004 calves. Some of them were already fattened and gone at the time.

This year we're making it a little simpler at calving, and putting regular tags with cow number and birthdate on them when the calves are born, and then do the RFID tags when they go to pasture. It's really not that hard to do if you calve in the yard, but I can see the problem with pasture calving if you're not around all the time. Those pasture born calves are a little frisky!! LOL

As for the dentition, teeth can't be used to tell a calf that's 18 months from one that's 24. Not reliably anyway. Those first baby teeth come out sometime in that time span, and it varies from calf to calf. Sometimes by a couple of months.

[cowman]

I think this spring we'll RFID tag them as soon as we put in the dangle tag...not a lot of fun doing 140 head of big calves in the fall when we are pressed for time.
The boy is pretty vigilant in the spring and gets them tagged right away but doesn't get them all but does record the birthdates on everything. We vaccinate for blackleg sometime in June so get them all trimmed up then.

[farmers_son]

Details of the protocols that will have to be in place to allow beef exports to Japan are still sketchy. However I am concerned that age verification may be not be the answer to seeing more Canadian beef exported to Japan.

One thing is certain, age verification will not increase trade in either live cattle or beef to the United States. We have already have an announcement of a new proposed rule, sometime after mid 2006 or early 2007, that would basically open the U.S. border to all cattle and beef. Age verification is being touted as our advantage into Japan. I think we need to examine that carefully.

Prior to May 2003 most of the Canadian beef that entered Japan did so through the United States. While Canada was the third largest exporter of beef to Japan the vast majority of the volume of trade was divided between the United States and Australia. It was believed that a significant portion of the U.S. exports were really Canadian beef.

It is true that Canada is ahead of the U.S. on ID but it appears that talk of a competitive advantage may be premature. The reports I have read suggest that the U.S. will be exporting beef based solely on carcass information while Canada will have to bear the extra cost of a verified age identification system possibly because our grading system is less able to identify carcass age.

So how is this going to work? Before a Canadian steer slaughtered in Canada is eligible for export to Japan it has to have age verification. Do we assume that the same live steer if exported live to the U.S. does not need age verification to be exported to Japan or will Canadian cattle slaughtered in the U.S. just not be eligible for export to Japan? Or will Canadian cattle have to be segregated from U.S. production, essentially MCOOL.

While our age verification system may see direct Canadian beef trade with Japan increase from relatively very low pre BSE levels I think producers need to keep in mind that politics sell beef. Japan is not going to risk trade retaliation with the U.S. Japan is simply not going to stop beef trade with the U.S. and replace that product with beef imported from Canada, age verified or not.

Canada cannot gain a competitive advantage over the U.S. when it comes to beef exports. The best we can hope for is a harmonized North American system where Canada enjoys the huge benefit of being blended in with U.S. beef trade. The U.S. is never going to negotiate protocols with Japan that places the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage to Canada. I am concerned that protocols for trade with Japan that mandate age verification for Canadian beef while not mandating age verification for U.S. beef will result in Canada loosing far more beef trade with the United States than it will ever gain with Japan.

Age verification simply because we have the technology to have age verification in the end may not be the panacea for increased Canadian live cattle and beef trade. Age verification easily could result in Canada loosing more markets than it gains.

[cowman]

Well farmers son I guess you never caught Doug Horners comment at the WTO meetings in Hong Kong? He seems to indicate that our age verification thing is the cats meow with the Japanese! Now I suspect you are right about a whole lot of things you have mentioned and maybe Horner is just blowing smoke! I do realize the Americans hold the big stick here and Canada is sort of a joke when it comes to international trade!
Hopefully we didn't go to all this effort to ensure our beef is acceptable only to have politics play the major role? It is frustrating trying to do the right thing and then realizing it is all BS because some sort of deal is cut under the table?
I actually hope you are wrong on this one FS!

[kato]

There is also at the moment some serious reservations on the part of Japanes consumers about the integrity of the American system. They want traceability above all else, and I don't think they'll go for generic mass processed beef just on the word of the American packing system.

The Americans can push the beef on them all they like, and open the border as far as they like, but they can't force individual consumers to buy it if they don't trust it.

[cowman]

I would also assume if bone ossification is going to be the preferred method of age verification then our American owned plants would have the ability to do it...just like the American plants? And also our finished steers going to the plant in Washington state would be eligible through the American system?
If the American plants are able to extract a premium price for export beef then it would be reflected back to the producer in Canada? The IBP plant in Washington ran on Canadian beef prior to BSE and they went right on the boat with a USDA stamp on them? Will that change?
Canada had a $67 million export trade in beef with Japan but the fact is the trucks rolled steady to Walla Walla out of feedlot alley, so in fact that number was quite a bit higher?
Personally I don't care if they ship beef to Japan as Canadian or product of the USA, just as long as someone will pay me more for my calves! If age verification will do that, then I will age verify them. It costs basically nothing...already doing the labor, paying for the tag and keeping the records! After we figured out the Excel spreadsheet it is basically copy, paste, send! How hard is that?
The CCIA has spent a lot of time and money promoting this idea? Was it all a waste of time?

[farmers_son]

I am sure age verification is the cats meow with the Japanese. And I should emphasize that I have not heard what the actual protocols will be that see North American beef start flowing into Japan. However an article in the Western Producer suggested that the U.S. and Canada are not being treated equally. It is not a victory for Canada if the Japanese insist on mandatory age verification from Canada while the U.S. is allowed to export beef to Japan using only carcass information.

There is nothing stopping anyone from voluntarily using age verification as a marketing tool to gain market share in Japan. There is age verified beef available in the United States today under private and voluntary state programs. Age verification does not offer Canada a competitive advantage over the U.S. I would point out however that up to now Canada and the U.S. have been completely harmonized in their respective approach to BSE. There is absolutely no justification for Canada to be placed under more stringent rules than the U.S., pointing out that we do not yet know what the rules for export would be. But it is not a victory for Canadian producers to be forced to use age verification if the U.S. is not.

It is not in the best interest of Canadian producers if the worlds export markets take a view that Canadian beef, and for that matter live cattle, needs to meet a higher level of proof of food safety than U.S. product. The implications for all our beef export markets, including exports to the U.S. are far reaching.

I too hope I am wrong on this one. However the rumours I have been hearing suggest that Canadian beef is going to have to meet a higher standard than U.S. beef. It is naïve to believe that Japan is going to import Canadian beef instead of U.S. beef. One has only to look at the volume of trade the U.S. does with Japan to see that Japan is going to import their beef from the United States and at best Canada will regain our 2-3% of Japanese beef imports.

At the national level I think we need to stay harmonized with the United States. The fact that we could say that the U.S. pointing fingers at Canadian beef was akin to the pot calling the kettle black or like calling your twin sister ugly helped open trade with the U.S. If individual corporations want to start private age verification programs that see a premium paid to the producers for taking part is such a program that is fine by me. However I do have a problem with a mandated age verification program that is put in place because there is something wrong with our beef while U.S. beef is viewed as being safer and not requiring the same level of food safety.

If such a thing happens, and that is not for sure at this point, it is very possible that only age verified beef will be exported to Japan. The difference being American producers will get paid a premium for age verified while Canadian producers, being mandated to ship age verified, would not.

[smcgrath76]

It is definitely more work for us. We currently do not tag calves at birth, and we pair up cows/calves on the horse prior to branding, cut out all the calves and then brand them. Pairing cattle and pulling pairs takes a lot of time. Perhaps a better question for some producers is...
Do I need to? If some producers are tagging and age verifying for Japan, and it pulls the general feeder market up, those who are not doing the work still stand to benefit. Currently this is very much the way the system has operated.
Think about vaccinating and boostering prior to weaning. The calves still get their full suit of shots on entrance to the feedlot. Those who don't do the work, just saved $7.
We generally own calves longer than weaning day so it pays big for us to do that kind of thing. Not sure yet about the tags.
Legislating birth dates is significantly different than the market providing a return on producer efforts.

[cowman]

Well as far as costs go...you already have to put in the tags? Of course time is money so I do see your point there.
I believe the CCIA has said age verification is going to be mandatory? So in reality age verification is just going to be the cost of doing business?
Might be totally useless, in our minds, but that is just how it is! Not much different from the inane safety/environmental stuff we have to go through in the oil patch?
I believe our cattle organizations(CCA and ABP) endorsed this policy? And hey, they are our duly elected representatives, right? I wonder how some people see it as the real meal deal while others don't? Mabel Hamilton(CCIA) thinks it is the best thing since pizza! Is she uninformed or something?

[farmers_son]

To be clear, my concerns are not about whether age verification is a good thing or not. At some point in the not too near future the protocols for exporting Canadian and U.S. beef to Japan and for that matter the rest of the world will be announced. Rumours to this point suggest that U.S. and Canadian beef will not be treated equally and that Canadian beef will have to meet a higher standard of food safety.

Up until now Canada and the U.S. have been completely harmonized in their approach to food safety and especially BSE. I think all Canadian cattle producers should be very concerned if it is mandated that Canadian beef has to meet a different and more stringent level of food safety than the U.S. in order to export to Japan.

The level of BSE in the Canadian cattle herd and the American cattle herd is comparable. It is not positive for our industry if Canada is required to put in place a mandatory age verification system while the U.S. is not. If that were to happen age verification would simply put us on a level playing field with the U.S. who would not be required to use age verification. The fact that we have a tagging system in place would in effect work against us as the U.S. who are years behind Canada with their tagging system would be exporting beef using only carcass information.

Bottom line, it is important that our beef is viewed as being every bit as safe as U.S. beef and that our two countries remain harmonized in their approach to BSE food safety. It is not a plus for Canadian beef producers if we have to meet higher export standards that the U.S. does not. If the U.S. is able to export to Japan using carcass information than it would be preferable that Canada lobbied to use a similar process leaving our age verification abilities available as a voluntary marketing tool rather than a mandated export requirement. If Canada has to meet special criteria to export to Japan that the U.S. does not have to meet then that just gives protectionist forces in the U.S. fuel to argue that Canadian beef and live cattle has to meet special export standards for entry in the U.S. Those export requirements quickly turn into trade barriers that cost Canadian producers money.