cais

[blackjack]

...emrald brought up the most important point and that is the cheap food policies of our government...i see your point but you tell me one other industry that is not subsidized by government somewhere along the line and i would say your full of crap...and by the way emrald1 is right if those peoples income is below a certain level the tax they pay would be reimbursted after filing for their income tax...

[olhoss]

The Liberal culture of entitlement has really taken root. I notice there's no call to subsidize waitresses and janitors.

Where would we be without a cheap waitress and janitor policy? </sarcasm>

[olhoss]

Saw this comment on a blog. Somehow I thought it fit.

"The ideal life of a Layton-Martin-Duceppe Canadian: survive abortion, cash government cheques, become swinger, kill self. Or something like that."

[blackjack]

...ok...olhoss...you win...but the janitor and single mom could go back to school where the government would pay their way then ...or better yet where are their families to lend support... you bring up a important point we all want to be these independent people until something unexpected happens and then we want government to save us from ourselves...by the way i could live without the programs but they had better end it for the competition as well...

...ps...just think all of the lobbyist that would be out of work if nobody could have a subsidy...lol...and then all the bureaucrats...if only we lived in a perfect world...

[blackjack]

actually olhoss, I subsidize a waitress every time I get good service, its called a TIP !!!
As far as the janitor goes, I can assure you that many of them make a good wage.
There are many opportunities for advanced education, and I know many people who were in lower end no future jobs that have taken advantage of distance learning evening courses and working in the daytime....
There are career choices these days that were not available years ago which allow for individuals to upgrade so they can have a career that provides a higher standard of living.
And just to add an interesting note, in our community the wife of one of the wealthiest retirees works the morning shift at McDonalds because she is bored.....should we feel sorry for her ????

[cowman]

And then again there is EI, Workers compensation, old age pension, subsidized housing, medicare and on and on? We're all on the government tit to one degree or another?
The real masters are companies like Bombardier and guys like Peter Pocklington...they get way more than their fair share!

[olhoss]

"actually olhoss, I subsidize a waitress every time I get good service, its called a TIP !!!"

Ah, now a subsidy is a "TIP". That Liberal thinking must be rubbing off. lol

"As far as the janitor goes, I can assure you that many of them make a good wage."

Oh well, that settles it, there's no doubt you're entitled to a portion of the janitor's hard work to maintain you and your business. As Dingwall said, "I'm entitled to my entitlements".

"There are many opportunities for advanced education, and I know many people who were in lower end no future jobs that have taken advantage of distance learning evening courses and working in the daytime...."

Yes, of course, better entitlements flow from those able to pay more.

"There are career choices these days that were not available years ago which allow for individuals to upgrade so they can have a career that provides a higher standard of living."

And better to pay your entitlements to keep you in the manner in which you would like to become accustomed.

[smcgrath76]

I think the challenge is really to run a business that works regardless of or outside of subsidization no matter what the business (farming, bombardier, etc.), however that said there is a need for a safety net for things such as natural disasters, etc. no matter what the business. This includes things like insurance, but also the government backing insurance type programs. This is a prudent investment as it provides a level of security for jobs and wealth generation in any country. I think this was the goal of CAIS, and as far as I am concerned, it is probably the best program they have designed yet. At least guys aren't growing vast acres of crop and praying that it turns out like hell so they can make a huge windfall (GRIP program).
I struggle with subsidies for business more because it lends itself to managing for greater subsidy payments. The role of any business is profit, therefore if the subsidy level ouperforms the basic returns of the sector, the best way to maximize profit is to maximize your subsidy. Right wrong or indifferent that's the way it is. In business we can't knock those who maximize profit.
Also, while we play in a worlwide market/price, it is not a fair game. We are trying to move towards fairer trade, but we also do not have initiative to move towards adding value/competition to compensate for some of our higher costs.
Certainly CAIS, and other cash flow programs have helped our town and local community. Most of that money did not stay with the original recipients for very long.
The real issue with these programs is that they don't address the real issues in agriculture and rural economies. AB in particular can take a pretty good look at states such as Colorado and see how things are changing there. I think that is to be us in 5 - 20 years. Ranchettes vs. ranches. Off farm income vs. farmers. Water use requirements. Etc. There are a whole host of issues evolving around our food and where it comes from.

[olhoss]

"There are career choices these days that were not available years ago which allow for individuals to upgrade so they can have a career that provides a higher standard of living."

I was thinking about this and wondering why it doesn't apply to farmers?

Why are farmers so special they need special protection much like the french language?

[olhoss]

<i>" think the challenge is really to run a business that works regardless of or outside of subsidization no matter what the business (farming, bombardier, etc.), however that said there is a need for a safety net for things such as natural disasters, etc. no matter what the business. This includes things like insurance, but also the government backing insurance type programs. This is a prudent investment as it provides a level of security for jobs and wealth generation in any country."</i>

Especially when administration eats up 80% of the payout. Right?

That's just the nature of gov'ts. No matter what party is in power.

Play with the devil and you have to play by his rules.

[smcgrath76]

Administration is god's gift to beaurocrats. I don't think the money is spent or administered particularly wisely, and no matter what type of "subsidy" is given in any industry, it does distort the real world. That's why there are hockey teams in Florida, Arizona and Tennessee.

[cowman]

In Canada most businesses are, in one way or another, supported by government? Thats just how it is? Despite the rhetoric even the Liberal party is very much a pro business party?
Now supposedly farmers are businessmen and not peasants or something, so it makes sense that government supports them in some manner...like every other business?
Consider this: For every dollar the farmer makes how much money is generated down the line? How many businesses rely on the products produced? How many rely on supplying the farmer with the products he needs?
If the government cut every last bit of support to all businesses what would be the result? Could you see a lot of businesses folding? Could you see a lot of janitors looking for another job?
If the businessman is a man with some capital do you think he might just take that money and put in somewhere else instead of generating jobs in Canada?
If you truly believe that this system doesn't work, what is your alternative? Is it the communist system? Well that doesn't work...so where do we go?
Capitalism is what built this country. The socialist policies that have crept in have not been helpful! They have created the concept of "entitlement" displayed by many? So the janitor feels "entitled" to a higher wage or the teacher feels she should be paid as much as the surgeon! No body is stopping either from becoming a surgeon...only lack of talent and committment! There is no shame in being poor...but it is hard to commiserate with anyone who won't take their own destiny in their hands and do something about it? We all have the ability to succeed and we all have the option to fail.