cais

[olhoss]

You would have to ask the residents of that particular village if they felt the decision of their council was a good one. All I know is that people in the community and for miles around are very pleased to have adequate dental care close buy.
Tax concessions are certainly a form of subsidizing a businesss.
olhoss, I don't know where you live but if its in Alberta, do you return your natural gas rebate....because it is a form of subsidy. Wouldn't want folks to think you were on the dole !!!!!!!

[cowman]

ol hoss: Not sure what your so upset about? I take it you don't think farmers should get any sort of subsidy?
If that is the case I wonder how you think the BSE crisis would have played out with no subsidy? Do you think a lot more cattle would have gone down the road at fire sale prices? Do you think a lot more farmers might have gone under and defaulted on their creditors?
Is that a good thing?
Not sure if you are living in the real world? Do you think it is wrong for a government to come in and prop up a valuable industry with tax concessions, subsidies, tariffs etc.?
If we want a level playing field maybe a company should be able to import janitors from China or somewhere and pay them $3 a day or something? Would that be fair?
You should take a look at the bottom line on some of these farms. The hourly wage might be quite a shocker? How about having a negative wage! But still paying taxes just like that janitor? If you think the farmer is getting rich on subsidies in this country...you need a reality check!
As I said before no one in Canada can say they aren't on the government tit.

[cowman]

I would be willing to venture a guess that some in some farm operations the NET income is less than that of the janitor !
And while we seem to be fixated about the janitor, I would say that if someone is not happy with being a janitor or the salary it brings, there are certainly more lucrative job opportunities out there for the asking !

[cowman]

I think another thing ol hoss doesn't appreciate is the company paying the janitors wages is probably recieving some "subsidy" on way or the other? How he defines a subsidy I don't know? Does he consider tax concessions a subsidy? Does he consider tariffs to level the playing field a subsidy? Does he consider infrastructure a subsidy? Lets face it a trucking company is getting a lot more out of the road system than Joe Blow riding his bicycle to work everyday!
The governments job is to create a climate where commerce can flourish? When commerce thrives everyone benifits including the janitor? If the government creates a climate where commerce doesn't thrive then nothing is created? No profits equals no jobs! The janitor suddenly finds himself out on the street looking for a handout to survive.
As I have said many times: There is the ideal world of the dreamer...and then there is the real world we live in?

[cowman]

well said cowman. I respect people in all walks of life regardless of the work they do. The local service station where I gas my vehicle has a number of older ladies pumping gas. One lady is in her early 60's, has always worked as a waitress or in housekeeping in the hotel industry.
She decided that she could make better money pumping gas, and after working at that job for a couple of years she told me this week that one of the customers of the service station has a vehicle dealership and has offered her the job of supervising the staff that cleans up the used vehicles etc., he did so because he has always been impressed by the way she has performed her job pumping gas !!! So someone in what may be considered a lower end position certainly can go up the ladder career wise regardless of their age if they take are good at what they do and can take advantage of what opportunities come their way.
By the way, the car dealership is located in a new business park, and is receiving some pretty good tax concessions as well as a 'deal' on utilities etc. from the local urban centre.
Now if olhoss were to hold true to his convictions I doubt if he would think the lady should accept the job because it is subsidized in a round about way !!!

Years ago we didn't have a veterinarian in our community so the local livestock producers went out recruiting one. The first vet that came here had a house provided rent free for the first year and also had his clinic taxes waived by the county.....after the first year he had his feet on the ground and had built up a good clientelle.
The cattlemen that paid his rent the first year were damn glad to have a vet in the community vs having to pay one to travel for an hour which in calving time can mean losing an animal.

There is a huge difference between subsidies and handouts. I don't favor handouts, because I think people need to be empowered to help themselves, but I do think that a level playing field helps everyone.

[olhoss]

<i>"Now if olhoss were to hold true to his convictions I doubt if he would think the lady should accept the job because it is subsidized in a round about way !!!"</i>

Now you're being ridiculous. Par for the course with those who have lost the argument before they began.

[olhoss]

<i>"Lets face it a trucking company is getting a lot more out of the road system than Joe Blow riding his bicycle to work everyday!"</i>

They're also paying a lot more in taxes to keep the road repaired.

Try to keep some semblance of common sense in your comments.

[olhoss]

<i>"The governments job is to create a climate where commerce can flourish? When commerce thrives everyone benifits including the janitor?"</i>

Actually, commerce doesn't produce anything. You can trade two nickels for a dime all day and no wealth will be created.

Commerce refers to buying and selling, that's all.

[olhoss]

olhoss, your comment that the trucking company is paying more taxes to keep the road repaired has no basis. The only thing we can say for sure is the cost to licence the truck is certainly more than the cost for the bike which likely does not need a licence.
Having said that, for all we know the guy on the bike may be a high income earner paying far more income taxes than the trucker, and also may pay far more property tax depending on where he lives and the type of home he has !!!!
The monies paid by the trucking industry to keep their trucks on the road isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to the costs of maintaining and building roads.
In the average municipality alone the cost to maintain a mile of local roads ( gravel) can run in the thousands. The municipalities don't get any of the dollars paid for vehicle licences, but they do get grants from the Province for specific road projects. ( notice I said GRANTS vs subsidies !!!).

[cowman]

Ol hoss: I hate to tell you this but buying and selling(read that as making money) makes the world go round! That's why we get out of bed in the morning!
Some people are content with little and some want more...thats just human nature?
When we try to make everyone "equal" artificially that is when problems arise. The communist and socialist systems are all about equal...that is why they are doomed to failure.
If the janitor is happy being a janitor then that is a good thing...if he aspires to be wealthy and is willing to pay the price...then that too is a good thing! The people who built this country were not content to be slaves in Europe anymore and that was a very good thing...for you, for me!

[cowman]

I agree cowman. If anyone is not content with the income they are making there are numerous opportunities available for them to get ahead. Alberta has an excellent network of educational consortiums in communities such as Edson, Rocky Mountain House, Whitecourt, Drayton Valley to name a few where adults can learn various professions. I know of many adults that took advantage of this opportunity when they were in their 30's and 40's and now are in professions that provide them with a lot better income than they were making before.

[olhoss]

<i>Ol hoss: I hate to tell you this but buying and selling(read that as making money) makes the world go round!</i>

If you wanted me to read "commerce" as "making money", or wealth, you should have used the correct terminology.

Wealth creation makes use of buying and selling as a tool, but commerce doesn't equal wealth creation.

Wealth creation can take place with no buying and selling whatsoever. For example, constructing a building from available trees. The building being more useful than the trees, therefore an increase in wealth.

[olhoss]

<i>olhoss, your comment that the trucking company is paying more taxes to keep the road repaired has no basis.</i>

What about fuel taxes?

[olhoss]

<i>When we try to make everyone "equal" artificially that is when problems arise. The communist and socialist systems are all about equal...that is why they are doomed to failure.</i>

That's what subsidies are designed to do.

I don't need to argue against subsidies, you're doing it for me. Well...when you aren't arguing for them. lol

[cswilson]

Subsidies are kind of like taxes-everybody is against education taxes as soon as their kids are done school-everybody thinks health care is overspent till they get sick-most people hate subsidies till they find out they're eligible for one-I imagine ol' hoss will get turned out to pasture some day in a government subsidized retirement home-or maybe by that time we'll have trimmed up government waste and the elderly will just get put out on an iceflow like the eskimos lol.