carcass weight?

[cowman]

On the Alberta Ag web site they quote the average carcass weight for steers in Canada as being 853 lbs.? If the animal dressed 60% then we are up to a live weight of 1423 lbs.?
On a different post on Agri-ville Randy told me the days of those 1500 lb. monsters are over. Now you add a 4% shrink to the kill weight and you are up to 1480 lbs.! So what gives here?
The weekly market report says feeders are very current and movement is good so I think it a safe bet that feeders are targetting those kinds of weights? Obviously some feeders must still like those 1500 lb. monsters? I wonder if the are making any money? Randy doesn't think so.

[rkaiser]

You're right cowman. I guess I should just give up and buy one of your homesteader bulls and get my head out of the sand. Keep any back this year?LOL

[cowman]

Kept two back but they are never for sale. What I was trying to point out in commodity beef the feeders/packers still want a certain sized product? You don't raise "commodity "beef so it doesn't apply to you, but it does for all us great unwashed commercial producers trying to produce what Cargill and Tyson desire? But then I forgot...you hate them!
Consider the packer economics? It costs no more to kill the 850 lb carcass than the 600 lb. carcass? Now without a doubt there has to be a limit somewhere(men can only do so much) but the profit on an 850 lb. carcass with the same kill costs is obviously more than the 600 lb. carcass? Those darned greedy packers, again!
I am always amazed that certain purebred breeders like to put down anything that doesn't smack of pure! If you've been around the purebred world you know there are always rumors about the "purity" in just about every breed and you should know they aren't all rumors!
Now consider this: The two calves I kept this year were out of cows that are both 8 years old. One cow is 7/8 red angus...AI bulls all the way back to a registered Silver Standard Hereford cow. The other is actually a cross of the Simmental bull Legacy and a registered Silver Standard bred cow. The 7/8 Red Anguses' calf is an AI calf from a top performing ABS Red Angus bull. The Sim/Herford's is out of a Fleck Sim ABS bull.
Both born in April, both still out with momma. Both cows have excellent feet,udders, dispositions and are very fertile. Both know how to take care of themselves and raise a big calf. Estimate the Angus calf(4R) weighed around 780 on Nov 21 and the Sim(57R) over 800! That was when we sold our steer calves.
So I would suspect both my "homesteaders" have better genetics than quite a few "purebreds"!
My downfall in life came when I went away to AI school in the late seventies. The instructor was this darned Scotchman(Alex Mills) who was a firm believer in cross breeding and it rubbed off on me! He was a Simmental breeder but not rabid about it. Anyway to make a long story short he showed me lots of good crossbred cattle that actually could put most purebred herds to shame!
I guess I've always wondered about the economics of agriculture? I've seen farmers who use there own seed grow great crops and I've seen farmers who use certified seed grow great crops. I think it has a lot more to do with inputs and know how than it has much to do with genetics? Especially when the home grown seed came from good genetics...just didn't have the little tag on it! Bottom line is do I grow a crop with $10/bu seed when my own grain is only worth $2...but maybe as good as the $10 stuff? Why I might just be able to use that extra eight bucks to put on a bit more N or maybe use a better spray!
At the end of the day it is the guy who has the most dollars in his pocket after the bills are paid who will make it? How we all get there is an individual choice?

[cowman]

yes these carcas are to big if over
weight minus 40 cent so350 to400 $/head
discount .
going to u-s-a top 950/lbs carcas
i agree with cowman need a cross-bred or big frame animal and 0,65cent/lbs
gain there is big profit at 1 $/lbs
going south !
it all goes back to the cow calf man .
we are paying to much for that calf.
hope the border keeps open and every
body is doing great again .
have a happy and prosper new-year

[Rodjam]

Cowman purebred must be pure, I am sure it is just a freak of nature that in the last 5 years all breeds have reds and blacks.

[cowman]

A young guy at a local feedlot told me they put some 450 lb. steers in at $690...or $1.53/lb.! Sure glad I'm not trying to make a buck there!

[cowman]

good small steer calves in the 400-450 range were selling high later in the fall, so obviously somebody thinks they can make a buck on them. For the cow/calf operator that calves in May and June it is an incentive to turn the bulls out later in '06'. For the purebred producer the January/ February/March calves still are necessary to make the yearling bull market.

[cowman]

We went to an April 1st date last year and will be there again next year. You still have to babysit them a bit but nothing like Jan./Feb? More a matter of laziness than trying to make more money.
High prices for light calves this year have made late calving moderately profitable but I wonder how far you can take this?
Bottom line is the price you get for the calf has to pay for the cost of keeping momma, pay the taxes and utilities,all other costs, and hopefully put some grub on the table? Can a 450 lb. calf do that every year?
If we are looking at a traditional feeding system of 200 days? And pasture costs in that $150 for the other 165 days? I don't know.
Custom rates to feed cows seem to be around $1.50/day or $300? So pasture and feed $450/year? Leaves you $200 per cow if you average $650/calf? Will that pay the interest, taxes, utilities, breeding costs, sale costs, fencing costs, vet bill, replacements? I guess it might this year...maybe not the last few years?

[cswilson]

Can I get a thousand or so cows to feed at 1.50 a day-glad we have Saskatchewan cows not those Alberta sociallites that need that kind of treatment.

[smcgrath76]

Later calving and earlier weaning should mean that cows need to be fed less per day for fewer days. Also, there is no law that says you have to sell calves off the cow. 600 pound calves cost less to feed than 1200 pound cows and they are adding value (beef if you are RK, liveweight if you are FS) while being fed, rather than just costing money.
Less labour is an added perk. $1.50 per day to feed a cow is probably pretty close if you consider yardage, but consider feeding 45 days or less and it is closer to $67.50 than $300.
This makes a lighter calf considerably more profitable. Also, there is probably some opportunity for increased conception rate, and running more cattle as your feed resource is going into a smaller/growing class of livestock.
It depends on what fits. At the end of the day, it is not what a calf sells for but the difference between what it sells for and the cost to get it there.

[cswilson]

Our 250 cows are running out in the fields-it takes me less than 2 hours a week to feed them-we feed once weekly-it works out to about 70-75 cents of hay per day.I can't see how to bulge my yardage to get it to 1.50 per cow per day-not much corral cleaning costs etc. Anoyther thing about lighter calves if you retain ownership-your land base has produced more calves to add value too-one thing I've noticed our harvest weights haven't changed much going from January calving to June-just have more of them now.

[sjc]

Hmmm...7/8 cow bred to a purebred red angus bull. Well guess what cowman you have a PUREBRED. 15/16 bulls if used on purebred cow sire purebred offspring. Where is the cross breeding in that? Your other calf is at least 7/8 Simmental so same difference. Sure you are not going through the expense of buying a PB bull but in essence you are still going after the uniformity you get in your calf crop by using purebred genetics.

[cowman]

sjc: Well we mix them up. Getting a bit too much Charlais blood in them in my opinion. Going to go back to some Gelview next year. I've never been a strong Angus man...even though we've used a lot of Angus genetics(probably prejediced)!.
Really like the look of modern Gelviehs...last time we used them was in 1990.
Don't know about feeding out those small calves? Seems like there is more labor and equipment required? Now mind you we do that anyway to a certain extent(heifers and tailenders) but I'm not that keen on doing too much extra work! I figure the easiest money from a calf is wean him on the stock trailer, if possible.

[cswilson]

I feed about 200 of the little buggers every day-they all the good hay they can eat and a few pounds of screening pellets. Got a size 8 feeding wagon-dual ground drive with two opposable thumbed feeding extensions-doesn't take me too long every day. I just feed them in one pen then let them out for their grain-we didn't get all our fencing done or they'd be out in the fields too.Those drought years when we pellet fed the cows there were days I kind of wished we had a hopper bin and a feed wagon but we muddled through it. Had a pretty buff peewee hockey player after 20,000 or so pails of grain lol.

[cowman]

I know how it is cswilson! My daddy always said milking those cows would be the best thing ever for improving my wrist shot! And I think he was right!
Nothing wrong with a boy working hard...wish I had done it with my own child? He tends to think "manual labor" is some sort of a Mexican! LOL
Hope winter is favorably for you this year? We have absolutely no snow this year(central Alberta), so far, but you never know what this darned country can bring? Might be up to our butt by next week?