Two Types of Cows

[farmers_son]

Reading the recent threads and the discussion on calf size and by default cow size I came to a conclusion. Rather than small versus large which is what the focus seems to be I am thinking the real decision is between two types of cows of another sort. I am thinking there is one type of cow that will put everything into the calf even if that means sacrificing herself and another type of cow that will sacrifice the calf to maintain herself.

I did some checking. We have kept records of our calf production as long as I can remember. We have been weighing our calves as they are weaned since I was a little kid and we have a lot of numbers at our disposal. With the miracle of computers it only took a few minutes to check and see that we always consistently wean calves that have gained between 2.34 and 2.45 pounds per day of age year in and year out. Drought, rain, weaning date, bulls, nothing seems to change the gain we put on the calves. Where we do have inconsistency is in open and late cows and cow condition relating to reproduction efficiency.

Our cows would be described as larger cows. Now I hear talk of the smaller cow offering very consistent rebreeding and live calves, even offering advantages in regards to longevity. Yet I think I recall ranchers talking about the weight of their calves varying quite a bit from year to year leading me to wonder if those hardy range cows are not looking after themselves first.

[olhoss]

A range cow that puts everything into her calf won't be around to have another calf. They don't have the advantage of the babying the larger types have to have.

Most ranchers have the philosophy the cow lives to keep them, not the other way around.

[cowman]

olhoss: Exactly! If they don't get the bills paid then we are gone! Or we are so enamored with the "lifestyle" that we keep her around to feel we are something we aren't?
I try to believe I do this because I can make some money? It can be a tricky balancing act in reality? We can all rationalize wherever we want to go?
Bottom line is this: Some of the people here are living in a dream world? Sooner or later most dreams end...but never doubt the power of the dreamers reality to sustain him or her!
I would suggest it is always helpful to realize what you are doing? My reasons: Capitalizing on land appreciation, looking for good tax writeoffs, playing the game. Not pretty..but true.

[olhoss]

cowman, the cows just process the grass. The most efficient way of doing that is the right way.

Any romance is an extra

[rkaiser]

Quite a few years ago, Soderglen Ranch produced a "Beef Cow Efficiency Graph".
I am not sure where they came up with the numbers, however the graph includes the cows weight at weaning and compares it to the sex adjusted weaning weight of the calf. I laminated this old document years ago and use it still from time to time. One simple example of an "efficiency score" is this.

Cow - A - 1600 pounds - calf 700 pounds efficiency score - 7

Cow - B - 1300 pounds - calf 600 pounds efficiency score - 7

Nice simple little graph that has helped me out through the years.

[farmers_son]

Yes there are big cows and there are small cows. I am trying to point out that there are cows that wean a consistent calf and there are cows that maintain their condition first and foremost.

I think there is a place for both kinds of cows but the discussion on which cow may be best for your operation may have more to do with does the cow look after herself or look after the calf than is she big or small.

[rkaiser]

Thus the graph which shows the calf weaning weight in the equation. You all know my position on cow size, my post could be viewed as a step back for Randy. - Calling a big cow with a big calf equal to a moderate cow with a moderate calf.

All about production. Whoever made this Soderglen graph obviously left room for the extra feed required for a larger cow. This is what intrigued me. How those figures were established and whether or not they are factual is likely debatable, however your good doing, productive cows tend to show up at or near the top every year.

[Rodjam]

I have one old cow that is always fat. I think she could live on twigs and still be huge. She has a perfect bag because it is never full and has a calf every year that weans at the bottom end. Why do I keep her? I figure in the last 3 years she has probably lost me money but like many of us we kept hoping that prices would turn around and live calf would actually be worth more then shipping an old cow. Maybe this year she pays for herself.

[CattleAnnie]

'All about production. Whoever made this Soderglen graph obviously left room for the extra feed required for a larger cow. This is what intrigued me. How those figures were established and whether or not they are factual is likely debatable, however your good doing, productive cows tend to show up at or near the top every year.'


A different way of looking at this might be that if the 1600lb cow can produce 200 extra pounds of calf during the same time frame as the 1300lb cow, at $1.00 a lb, that bigger calf's extra weight will more than pay for the additional feed needed to overwinter the big cow.

Also, if you're like some outfits with a lease situation (yeah, I know, dirty word to some)and charged on animal unit (a/u) numbers, you'll pay the same money for grass to pasture the 1600lb cow as the 1300lb cow... and have more pounds to sell with the bigger calves than the fellows who runs the smaller ones.

Any thoughts?

[CattleAnnie]

Sorry for typo...should have been 100lbs extra according to graph.

But really wonder about those numbers. Seems like a 1600lb cow should be cranking out an 800lb calf in the same time frame as a 1300lb cow can make a 600lb calf...

[rkaiser]

If that 1600 pound cow is raising an 800 pound calf Cattle Annie, I'm not going to argue that she is not paying her way. More than likely his sire weighed 2800 pouinds too eh? I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't want to be feeding those calves and trying to catch a top grade.

As far as the pasture thing. I partially agree as well. Rental usually boggles my mind when it comes to units. I wonder if the owner will wake up some day and wonder where his pasture disappeared when he had to ask the owner to pull his cows out early. She simply HAS to eat more Cattle Annie.

With all of the so called forward motion that the industry has seem over the last 30 years concerning gain ---- I still have yet to see any of these bigger cattle convert feed more efficiently than small ones. This is an area that our industry certainly needs some work. Big cows and small cows.