MCOOL?

[cowman]

This sort of relates to my post below:
COOL has basically been delayed(again) to 2008? What are the chances of it ever being implemented?
Would it withstand a trade challenge if it is ever implemented?
I suspect, in the end, it will be quietly shelved or watered down to where it means nothing?
R-CALF thinks the sun rises and sets on MCOOL, but is this smart? Not only is chicken incredibly cheap in the USA but chicken will be exempt from COOL thus giving it another distinct advantage in the meat case?
R-CALF seems to be under the illusion that if they can stop the flow of Canadian live cattle to US plants those same plants will have to pay more for their cattle...never realizing that Cargill and Tyson now have the capacity to kill every animal in Canada and ship it south as "product of Canada"! Of course the price of cattle in Canada will be quite a bit lower so they will make a lot of money!
Maybe R-CALF thinks the American consumer will buy patriotically...but the fact is that just doesn't happen anymore? It is more about quality and price these days!
Top all this off with the fact the only meat that will be affected is meat going into the meat case and what have you? The vast majority of Canadian beef always went to the restaurant trade and institutional trade...unaffected by COOL?
Is R-CALF once more beating a dead horse? Donating their calves to pay vegetarian lobbyists instead of vegetarian lawyers? Will MCOOL ever happen?

[Willowcreek]

Montanas M-COOL goes into effect Oct. 1, 2006...At least the Montana consumers will have a choice....

[Willowcreek]

cowman- An interesting tidbit I picked up on-- NCBA is now publicly stating that they oppose the rule which allows the Packer/Retailer to remove the CFIA inspected stamps/labels and relabel/restamp with a USDA inspected stamp and pass off as a US product-- if it was slaughtered in Candada it should keep the CFIA stamp thru sale...This would allow the consumer to know which is Canadian slaughtered...

Knowing that NCBA and the Packers are joined at the hip- I wonder what the benefit to the Packers could be...

The major thing I see it could influence is the new independent Canadian plants- meat from them would be required to be sold in the US with a CFIA stamp which would then identify it as Canadian product--Where the Tysons/Cargils/Swifts could just import live Canadian cattle into the US, slaughter it there, and put the USDA inspected stamp on-- which could make it worth more at the grocery store....

[JD6320]

willowcreek,

I dont know if in the U.S the food is labled with country/state of origin, but here almost all food has it labled(Ontario).When I stand in the produce isles and look at consumers picking there produce, other than quality and appearance price seems to top most peoples choices.Example right now washington state apples are being sold at about 20 cents a pound cheaper than local apples and the U.S apple bin is the first to empty. If there is resistance to Canadian Beef in the U.S that will be overcome by price. The end result is you bring walmart prices to the beef case.

[Willowcreek]

JD6320- Well it wasn't that way down here in this area (Montana) when back in May 2003 consumers found out that much of their beef not only did not come from Montana (since most our slaughter houses went broke competing with the cheap Canadian beef that was being passed off as US) but did not come from the US-- which helped lead to the easy passage of the Montana M-COOL law..That and the USDA/Packers compulsion to again open the border to a higher BSE rate country without still telling people where their beef comes from, and giving them the choice on origin of the food they eat......

[cowman]

Now Willowcreek, which packing houses in Montana closed down due to cheap Canadian beef entering your state? We know there were a few the USDA closed down because they were like cesspools, so please don't include those?
Do you have, or have you ever had, a real state of the art packing house of a decent size?
I'll tell you, I've driven over a fair portion of Montana over the years, and I have never seen a really good sized feedlot? Certainly nothing that might compare with the ones in feedlot alley in southern Alberta? So I have to ask you: Why would a major packer build a plant in Montana when you send most of your calves somewhere else to be fed?
And by the way, if the Canadian dollar keeps rising, it might be very possible in the next few years your calves will be heading north to feedlot alley!

[blackjack]

...if the dollar continues to rise...that is exactly what is going to happen cowman...i wonder if willowcreek would swallow is pride and let is calves head north...my bet is he would...

[Willowcreek]

cowman- You are correct that several of the plants were getting old-but still functional..And a couple were brand new that never could make it... There is a brand new one sitting empty in Malta- operated only a couple years...As far as feedlots- our county alone has capacity for about 35,000 with one family having lots that will hold about 25,000...

When Canada got the Prairie subsidies to go away from wheat and grains and go to pasture and cattle many quit buying hay and feed from our river bottom areas- Canadian hay was plentiful and as cheap as $20 Ton...To adapt the US producers started raising more corn along with hay and feeding out cattle..

So now we're ready for the labeling of beef "Product of Montana"...

[rkaiser]

Sure hope that you can convince the mutinational partners of yours that YOU helped to expand capacity in Canada, to put keep that Montana Label off the cattle you ship to their plants in Alberta and then back to Grand Forks Willow Creek.

Pretty hard for an old guy like you to keep up isn't it.

About the same as the ass backwards leadership of Rcalf itself????????

[cowsense]

Willow creek: You stated that Canada moved it's subsidies to grass and pasture. Care to elaborate, I must have missed some payouts! You talked about Canadian feed for $20 ton- probably is what it cost the Montana producer after he collected his federal and state disaster payouts. Paid for 2/3 or 3/4 of the cost including freight.These guys were bidding up to $70 ton standing for Canadian hay because they knew their govt. was gonna pay the tab. Perhaps we should check the subsidy site and see what you collect each year on your grain crops!

[Willowcreek]

Under the Prairie Provincial "Somekind" of Act or Program, producers north of me got paid up to $85 an acre to take there land out of grain production and put it into pasture and hay- after the ruling against the Crow rate...Much of the miles and miles of wheatland that used to be north are now pasture and hayland...

Actually the hay was like $40 ton Canadian which figured out to $22 ton US if you hauled your own- $30 US they'd deliver 50 miles across the border with no additional charge- no subsidy... A few years of that ran several local hayproducers out of business or into a different direction....

[cowsense]

Willowcreek; As usual your information is coffee shop/barroom bullcrap! There was a greencover program years ago for converting limited amounts of marginal land to grass. Nothing compared to the CRP programs where entire counties were seeded to grass and the owners were able to make a killing off your govt. As for hay prices it was extremely disgusting to droughted out ranchers watching load after load of hay go south at exorbitant prices knowing that it was being paid for by US subsidy programs. As for your diseased cattle you seem to overlook the fact that hundreds of thousands of Montana calves have come north to be fed sometimes being bought at a signifigant premium over your existing market!

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Am very interested in this "Montana MCOOL"? Is this just for beef in the supermarket or is it for pork, vegetables, fruit etc.? And how do you get the meat case full of "product of Montana" when you don't have any slaughter capacity? And is it mandatory for beef from out of state being labelled "product of Nebraska" or is it just "product of Canada? Or is it just another marketing scheme and not really MCOOL at all?
The other thing about how Canada was subsidized to plant grain land into grass is completely wrong. The reason so much land was planted down to hay and grass was because the "CROW freight rate" was abandoned by the federal government? This freight rate was like an Indian treaty...for as long as the grass grows and the rivers flow! The US made such a stink over it as being a subsidy to Canadian grain farmers that the federal government cancelled it...while getting absolutely no action from the American government on their subsidies? The result was we saw American corn move into our country...corn landed in Lethbridge for half the price the American farmer got for it!
Between Europe and the USA, they have pretty well bought up the world grain trade through subsidies. Almost impossible for non subsidizing countries to compete? So what do you think a Canadian farmer should do? What they did was go into cattle and hogs.
Bottom line: If you Americans are pissed off that the Canadian livestock producer is out competing you...you should look in the mirror because it was your own government and farmers who created this situation? And on top of that no one held a gun to your head and made you sign NAFTA! Your country has benifitted from NAFTA in a big way?
Now you try to play these little games with a signed trade deal, because you can't compete with the monster YOU created!
I will also note during 2002(bad drought up here) Americans came up here and bought up a lot of feed...because the American government was paying the freight bill! It was so ridiculous they were hauling silage from central Alberta to Montana! While in Alberta we were paying our total freight on feed coming in from Manitoba and eastern Saskatchewan! You really have nothing to tell us when it comes to subsidies? You are so far on the government tit it should make you blush to even mention that word?

[Willowcreek]

cowman--The main thing the Montana M-COOL law is outlaw the FRAUD of Packers/Retailers removing the Canadian labels and stamps and relabeling with US stamps and passing off as a US Product..

It ALLOWS a way for all meat, grain products made in Montana to be labeled as a product of Montana...It REQUIRES all imported meat be labeleled with Country of Origin or placarded Origin Unknown if it is mixed-- which will not be an additional hardship since the new Homeland Security laws require all retailers to maintain complete origin records on all imported products...

[cowman]

So when you go down to the local grocery store is the meat labelled "product of Montana"? And if all the meat in the meatcase is labelled that way...where is it coming from? Is it all from Montana?
Now when you take the wife out for a tasty steak dinner...do you know where that steak comes from...because there is a very good chance it came from...yep, you guessed it...Alberta!
I find it very interesting you also label your grain products "product of Montana"! Do you have anything on the shelf in the bakery that even can qualify for the label? And for that matter do you have any meat in the meat case that can qualify? You know born raised slaughtered and processed...right here in the good old state of Montana? Or is this thing sort of a farce? A PR thing put out by your goofy governor?
And by the way, how do you track all those Montana calves through the feedlot/packing/retailing system with out a national ID...so they can qualify for "product of Montana"?
I suspect this is just another gong show meant to impress the rednecks in the back forty...or is this how you see your dreamed of national MCOOL program working?