no better feeder cattle

[TOM4CWB]

reading lately a lot about purebred,s
and raising better beef cattle !!
Our feeder cattle have not changed a lot over de last ten years. we still have these dumpy little black angus and small hereford cattle . coming to our feedlot,s
hard to beat the crossbreds and charlay
cross for better gain and lean meat !
it is time we put some size in those
cattle for better performing .

[ALLFARMER]

Take a drive from Calgary to Medicine Hat and all you will see is Angus. In the fields & on the sides of Reefer vans! Its about Consumer demand not about average daily gain or finishing size. Angus beef is quality not quantity.

[ALLFARMER]

And awaaaaaay we go on another post that is guaranteed to be very interesting !!!

[grassfarmer]

jerryk, I think you prove my point that the high level of heterosis in bulls being sold nowadays precludes them from passing on their genes to their offspring . With all the
"elephant beef" Angus bulls we see sold you should be getting plenty of size and growth in your black feeders by now. Probably tastes like elephant too!

[grassfarmer]

ALLFARMER, I would venture to say that not all the black cattle you see are angus...
As a former member of a livestock show committee for a fairly large show, I can guarantee that black cattle aren't just shown in the ANGUS class !!!

[PureCountry]

jerryk, if you're a feeder you have a better idea of your profit margin than I do. However, what is your cost of production? Feed conversion is your number one profit opportunity, and those animals with size may gain great, but how many pounds of feed does it take them to put on ONE pound of saleable product?

Most feedlots are not equipped to test individual animals on their net feed efficiency, but you probably do cost comparisons between pens of calves right? Compare a pen of continental calves that finished @ 1600lbs avg., to a pen of british calves that finished @ 13-1400lbs. avg. When you take into account all the death loss, vaccinations, meds, labour for treating sicks, extra feed for those in the sick pen, total feed consumed, total bedding, supplements, etc. and subtract that from total income, you have your profit per pen. If bigger cattle - no matter what breed - consistently produce more PROFIT than moderate framed cattle, it's news to me.

Moderate framed cattle - british breeds - gain 3, 4, 5 lbs a day just as well as continentals, and usually with less feed. That's been proven at Olds College. But, like I said, you know your operation better than I, to each his own.

[silverback]

Until the day comes that the beef industry comes close to letting the primary producer know exactly what breed or combination of breeds the industry really wants, nothing will change.

Compare the beef industry to the swine or chicken industry for example. The packers and retailers are asking for a certain size and quality of product from those industries and they are meeting it. Different companies ask for different qualities and the producers then match that demand.

The problem with the cattle business is that there is too many gaps in the system between the retailer, packer, feedlot, backgrounder, cow/calf guy, and the seedstock industries. Everyone thinks they know the answers and nobody can say they are wrong.

If the retailers ever came out and said "We want a 1/4 Angus, 1/4 Charolais, 1/4 Hereford, and 1/4 Chiania? and we will pay the cow/calf guy an extra $150 for that animal" it would make life a lot easier.

But can you imagine the howling? I cannot imagine it happening anytime soon as there is obviously no demand for that kind of idea from the packers or retailers.

[kato]

There's quite a spread even within one breed when it comes to frame size. That includes all breeds. If you're still getting dumpy small framed cattle, perhaps a new cattle buyer is in order?

When we buy calves to feed we buy a certain 'type' of calf, and don't worry about the breed. There's a type of calf that works for our feeding methods, and we quite frankly don't care what colour it is. What it needs to be is long bodied, but wide across the back, with some muscle, and good bones. Not narrow, and not potty.

As well, we raise Charolais steers that finish around 1350 lb., and I would think they do it as economically as any. Our cows are the same size as the purebred Angus breeder's down the road, and other than the colour there's not a lot of difference in the type of cow.

That should stir things up!

[kato]

Well silverback if your hypothetical breed is what packers ever want, good luck in finding many Chianina's around !!!
In my years in the cattle business I have spoken to numerous butchers,some with their own shops that retailed beef. There were't two of them on the same page when it came to the 'magic cross' or ' best steer' I could tell you that many of them said there was less waste on a Limo cross than many of the other exotic breeds but that will add fuel to the fire !!!

[cowman]

The very first Char bull we ever bought was used on purebred herefords. He was a really big bull(and very expensive) but built right and his calves were long, lean and big! No calving problems to speak of.
In the fall his steer calves weighed 70 lbs. more than the straightbreds! We fed all the heifers out and I never saw anything grow like those char cross heifers. Now everything was fed together so don't know if the chars ate more or not but come spring they were one hell of a set! We had made the decision to not keep any crossbred replacements so sold them at auction. The guy who bought them bred them and kept them for cows. The next year he bought all the Char heifers privately. The year after that we started keeping them.
I've bred Red Angus, Simmental, Gelvieh, Salers...and nothing I've ever owned can gain weight like a char cross! Just my opinion.

[kato]

There's a market for just about every kind of steer out there. For instance, right now there are several packers who are looking for only Limo and continental crossed cattle to fill a demand for natural beef that meets a specific high yielding lean carcass quality. There are also markets for well marbled grass fed, and grain fed large and small carcasses. It's a matter of finding the market that fits your specific cattle.

If they were all alike there'd be no such thing as a premium would there?

Speaking of premiums, I would think the premium paid over the past few years for the Angus branded programs have as much to do with the number of Angus cattle in Alberta as anything else. What I'm wondering is if the premium will still be there once there are more of these cattle than the program needs?

Maybe someone who's selling into this market can let us know how it's going. We've never taken part in it, so have no personal experience. Over the past 20 years, our own calves have been more likely to have gone south or to Ontario than to Alberta.

I agree with you cowman about the gain on the Char cross calves. They've been good to us over the years. Now we are crossing a lot of cows to Limo and are getting heifers that feed like steers, and sell like steers too for that matter.

[PureCountry]

How many times do we need to repeat ourselves? Cowman, those Char calves may have gained 10 pounds a bloody day, but if the cost is too high of feeding them to do that, they are no more profitable than any other animal.

Yes I know you know that, and YES I am guilty of using breed analogies in my previous post. But we have to stop doing that and look for type, as Kato said. For Pete's sake people I think we've gotten past the point of 'Bigger is Better'!

Real estate guys yell Location!Location!Location!, we need to yell Quality! Profitability! Sustainability!

[newguy]

I have bought cows bred angus and calves from cows did not make top pens at big presort black sale. I bred cows limo and those black calves made it into top black pens. Heifers included. So what really are those black replacements out there?

[newguy]

way to go newguy !!! Never underestimate the clout of a pen of black limo cross heifers !!!!

[silverback]

How exactly do you keep those Limos in the pen????



lol