Straw for bedding

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, "Well I've always preferred cattle with a good hair coat.....
most legs don't have a lot of hair or fat on them?" - do your cows shave their legs ;o)
Mine have hair on their legs - right down to the hooves. It's shorter, thicker hair than on their sides but hair and insulation none the less.

[grassfarmer]

How many of the guys that insist cows need bedding calve in the winter? Calves born in the winter are getting a far tougher deal than cows bedded in snow calving in May onwards. A 1300lb cow can stand a lot more than a 70lb new, wet calf.

[grassfarmer]

my cows calve in late February/March but I calve them in shelter pens so they are always full of clean bedding. The cow herd has straw or greenfeed as bedding just in case somebody decides to calve outside, and of course they have bedding other times as well.
This year I haven't used nearly as much because they were out grazing and lying in the field most of the time instead of bedding down near their feeders.

The time producers choose to calve their cows is a management tool, much like the breed of cattle they raise.
I hate calving in April due to mud. I have found that its a lot easier to drag a calf in if necessary on the snow than hauling one through the mud.

We have had 4" of nice fluffy snow here overnight, so the bedding that I put out yesterday is nowwhere to be seen !

[PureCountry]

With us calving in June/July, the calves were on the cows swath-grazing from the 3rd of Nov to the 1st of Feb, then bale-grazing until they got on the truck today at 3pm. They bedded down in brome and native grass in the bush and did just fine all winter. Damn fine. Heaviest set of calves we've ever weaned. No frozen teats on cows either. Mother Nature is alot easier to work with than against.

But, common sense ain't for everyone.lol

I know, I know, summer calving can't work for everyone with seeding or whatever. But I work off the farm and lead a fairly busy schedule and it works real good for us. Cows will amaze you with what they can do, if you give them the chance to show it.

But go ahead, keep 'em locked up and calve 'em in pens in cold weather. Treat their feet, treat their calves, pull their calves, rush 'em to the vet at all hours of the night for a zipper installation. Drench the weak ones and hold up the big dumb ones with no instinct to suck.

Go see your 'friend' at the equip dealer and have him 'help' you into a tractor and shiny bale processor. While you're in town, pick up that new silage cutter, and don't forget the 2nd tractor for it.

Well, I think I'll quit now before I step on everyone's toes. He, he. Have a good night all.

[grassfarmer]

I have a debate with my neighbour once in a while - he calves in February. When I ask if they would consider calving later he insists they couldn't - the corrals are too muddy in April. Fair enough I ask but is there a need to calf in corrals? Is there a need to calf in April?

Of course we all know the old story "I must calf in January because I've got purebreds and you must calf then if you are to sell bulls". Why? as an example Soderglen are calving in July now and they seem to be able to sell bulls. People are so set in their ways - it amazes me coming to one of the coldest countries in the world and finding people calving in the coldest months of the year. As Purecountry says it's good for the input suppliers - heat lamps, calf sledges, calf shelters, calf ear muffs. Good for the input suppliers - poor for the producers.

[redcountry]

we use lots of straw all spread with a idot stick, our yearly supply is about 1200 bales.

All animals are housed under roofs
2 cow/calf barns 85x120
1 calf barn 45x80
1 feeder barn 55x110
1 multi use shed

we start calving march 15 to end of may and again sept to end of oct

the fall calves never need attention of any kind but in the spring it seems like we are always running.
we are moving more cows to fall calving every year.

[cowman]

Well we went to April calving two years ago and it is a lot less work than January I will admit.
The trend is later calving...just like the trend was early calving about the mid seventies? The trend is away from the bigger exotic cows(high management cows) to smaller cows(low mangement)...and that makes sense with the poorer returns? If the market ever returns to the days when you got paid for that big exotic calf...the trend might go the other way?
Don't forget, no matter how you cut it, you are getting a lot less net profit per cow than you were 15 years ago? I think Cam Ostercamp laid that scenario out in his paper...and he was right on the money! The actual net return on a cow has become so poor it doesn't really pay to put a lot of effort into raising big calves. Sort of like raising tropical fish or something...no money in it but a lot of fun!

[Willowcreek]

Cowman- You mention how the trend was to earlier calving in the 70's--there was also a trend then for many of the young people to come back to the farms and ranchs- something that isn't happening now....Many of those are now in their 50's- 60's...With the average age of the rancher/farmer increasing yearly, I think many have had to look for easier ways to do the same things...

[cowman]

Well that is definitely true Willowcreek! Somewhere along the line you start to just run out of gas? When I think back to a lot of the stuff we used to do....well I just don't know how my Dad and uncles did it as they got older!
Things have changed a lot since the 70s up here. At that time Canada was a net importer of beef and there was a lot less cows around and a lot more grain. Most people had cattle, some hogs and grain. The grain business has become very consolidated due to many reasons, including poor returns, the loss of the CROW freight rate, and the high cost of machinery. The small hog farmer has dissappeared completely and the same thing is happening to the small cow/calf guy and the farmer feeder.
It is getting hard to keep the boys down on the farm, if you will, when there is so much opportunity in construction, the trades, and the oil patch. Pretty tough to calve out a bunch of cows in the winter when you are working away from home.

[rookie]

Purecountry,

don't worry, your not steppin' on any toes , but ya might be tippin' your cards.......

[countryguy]

Ddniak,or anyone else for that matter you are welcome to come and see some UNBEDDED,HAPPY,and HEALTHY Manitoba cows anytime you'd like.

I couldn't care less what anybody thinks of me for not bedding them.The important thing is the girls are happy and that's all that matters.

[countryguy]

whatever works is the way to go !!! That includes choice of cattle and calving seasons.
What works here might not work in someone elses program. I have been in the cattle business for years and have never talked to anyone that is looking for hairy cattle but that doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of people that like that type of cattle and utilize them in their operation.
Calving here has always begun in late February, most years there isn't a lot of cold weather after that but some storms in March and April etc.
If a person is set up for it and has shelters for the cattle to calve in and good calf shelters and some windbreaks either natural or manmade the cows and calves come through in good shape.

[kato]

In thirty years of having calving start in January,I have thawed out a total of two hypothermic calves in the bathtub. Both were born in the second half of April. Go figure.

The way the climate is going, who knows what the weather will be no matter what time of year we calve. In our area I think we've had snow in May almost every year for the past few years. Not just a flurry either, a good six inches of sloppy wet stuff at a time that made us happy our calves were big and tough at the time.

Do what your facilities and schedule allow. If we spread the calves out over the year between us, we'll even out the old fashioned big runs that always led to lower prices.

[kato]

The first set of calves born here arrived starting mid April. Between wet snow and rain and not enough straw we learned the hard way not to calve in April in this area.
Now the calves are bigger when the rains hit, and they are out on pastures with calf shelters so they can weather the storm so to speak.

[grassfarmer]

Funny how any debate about winter calving versus calving in tune with nature always comes down to "April is worse because it's muddy" How about May, June,July etc? In Central Alberta we don't hit an average mean temperature of 10C until May so I'm not buying the theory that normally Jan/Feb/March are nice spring months to calve in.

The other thing that baffles me is the hair predjudice - correct me if I'm wrong but all the cattle I've ever seen have had hair, some a little, some a lot. So when we get comments like "I have never talked to anyone that is looking for hairy cattle...." are we really saying what we don't want is cattle with what is perceived to be too much hair, the wrong kind of hair or hair on the wrong parts of the body?
All cattle have (and need) hair, the amount and type is probably related to the conditions the animal is raised in with regard to climate, time of year, age, diet and genetic makeup.
I've sold the occasional animal over the years that has been docked value at the auction on account of hair but it hasn't always been from one of the perceived "hairy" breeds. I see plenty cattle docked for having horns, poor temperment or bad legs - does it mean all the breeds involved should be boycotted and ridiculed because they are poor sorts?

A cross breed experiment was done when Luing cattle first came to Canada with the following conclusion: "In cold climates they (Luings) are noted for efficient conversion of feed energy. Luings require only 0.8% energy increase per degree F below a base temperature, compared to a 1% energy increase for most other breeds. The heavy coat of a Luing cow will save up to 3.8 lbs of hay daily at zero degrees F (-17.8 C) and is easily shed in summer."