Straw for bedding

[cowman]

Not trying to put down the importance of being energy efficient, but in reality how much would you save per cow over the winter? $20?
Can that $20 offset higher production of the calf produced?
Now I will admit I've never seen a Luing cow and don't really know much about them.
Seems to me most crossbreds with Angus or herefords are pretty tough cows and can handle most conditions we throw at them? Don't know if the average cow/calf producer needs a cow so tough they can compete with a buffalo or something and still not sure these minor breeds are fully accepted? I'm not saying they shouldn't be...I just don't know if all the feedlot buyers see it that way? It's like when I saw those Welsh Black calves about a month ago go through the ring? You could see they were good cattle but you could also tell the buyers were very hesitant about buying them. Now maybe these buyers weren't enlightened types or something and will find these cattle do well in the feedlot? Cor Van Rays guy was sitting on his hands, I noticed?

[cowman]

grassfarmer the luing cattle obviously work well for you, and thats great, however, as I said before I have never heard any producer in this area or a bull customer here indicate that they were interested in utilizing the traditional longer hair coat cattle in their program.

At the end of the day the bottom line is what counts, and if your cattle are bringing you a better dollar than the next mans are then you obviously are on the right track.

In no way am I criticizing longer haired cattle, I have seen some awesome galloway cattle that would hold their own in any market. I have seen luing cattle on display at Farmfair years ago, and certainly know that Bob Church has done well with them but in all honesty they aren't Bob's bread and butter either.

The lower cost of maintenance in the haired breeds is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

As I indicated in a prior post the highest dollar at yesterdays bred cow sale was for black angus cross bred cows, and that has been the norm for all the bred cows sales I have attended .


Just out of curiousity have the folks who raise galloways, welsh black, luing etc. ever held a combined calf sale or bred sale ? It might be a good marketting tool.

[grassfarmer]

Having off farm income doesn't necessarily mean cattle are a money losing hobby. The particular herd you mention has impressed me more than any other I have seen in Canada. Imagine a seedstock herd run absolutely commercially on native grass, hand fed forage for only 2 1/2 months a year. These cows came through the drought year winters on two year old barley straw that was pretty black but analysed at 8% protein. I think it cost $9 a bale if I remember right. Many of the cows were close to 20 years old and they bred back just fine the next year. This to my mind is the way seedstock cattle should be selected if we are to have genetics that are profitable to producers.

Counter that with all the Jan/Feb calving purebred herds, creepfeeding calves from birth - no wonder we are in the mess we are, breeding paper cattle. Selection is founded on high maintanence cattle in a pampered environment - good for input suppliers, poor for producers. Feedlot cattle are no longer confined to the lots - they are bought, sold and living in purebred herds under the guise of high EPD, high performance seedstock.

Yes Cowman,"the average cow/calf producer needs a cow so tough they can compete with a buffalo" - this may be the only way to survive as beef producers in a world awash with cheap beef.

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer there are many purebred herds that calve early, creep feed their calves from birth etc., but there are many like mine that are calved early but aren't pampered. When we had a commercial herd they were looked after the same way the purebred cattle are, calved in the same facilities and grazed on the same pastures.
I don't buy any seedstock or herd bulls from breeders that manage their cattle differently than I do my own, because they are going to have to work in this program.
I use a special mineral due to the high sodium in my well water but that isn't anything new here, we started using it 20 years ago when the commercial herd was still around.

20 year olds cows can certainly attest to the longevity of a breed, but in today's market anyone that is dispersing their herd is not getting much for any older cows regardless of how fertile they are.

[grassfarmer]

Sorry, but anyone that is calving in winter is pampering their cattle. Meeting peak nutritional demands with conserved feed is by implication a high cost, pampered environment.

On longevity, to quote Kit Pharo "Old cows hold the secret. Old, well-proven, grandma cows in most herds, and in most environments, have many similarities. They are not tall cows. They have tremendous guts and heart girth. They hold their condition well. They don't wean the biggest calf every year -- but they have weaned one every year for 12 to 15 years. Their pedigree goes back to some old-fashioned genetics. Their growth and milk EPDs are substantially below breed average." Makes a lot of sense to me.



On longevity, to quote Kit Pharo "

[cowman]

Well grassfarmer you certainly look at it in a different way than most and who knows at the end of the day you might be the only one in business!
Most people don't look down the road 20 or 30 years in many agricultural ventures. The times are changing too much?
Personally I doubt we'll still be raising cows in 20 years(well I sure won't) but the boy seems to enjoy them right now and they sort of break even? Keeps the darned grass mowed down at least while the land continues to appreciate in value.
Not too hard to figure out the future of this land I own. A playground for the wealthy. Marching my way everday.
I found this kind of funny: I was talking to this guy out by Sylvan Lake. He was in the process of trying to get some land zoned industrial. He told me they were trying to maximize the value of the land they owned...land that they had owned over 100 years! I said well it is kind of sad to see an old farm like this being sold and turned into a business park? He said "Well I think 100 years is enough? We've been sentenced to hard labor for little return for 100 years. I think it is time we got set free"! I guess everybody looks at this sort of thing in a different way?

[cowman]

It is sad isn't it, but I guess the fellow has a good point.
I don't know how the benchmarks the government has set for agricultural production and value added are going to materialize if all the best producing lands are under concrete!!

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, I was brought up with the maxim "farm as if you are going to live for ever and live as if you are going to die tomorrow"
Thus far I've accomplished the former better than the latter!