picking heifers

[cowman]

I often wonder how some people pick out their repacement heifers? How much of the old eyeball method goes back to what we were taught as kids?
I know I have a tendency to pick heifers that look a lot like a hereford(minus the color)! I don't like those long leggy girls and I definitely don't like them light boned! Like a nice thick curly coat, big belly, and wide at the hips. Don't like a real post legged heifer...like you often see with Sims?
About 7 years ago I bought five really good looking Hereford heifers at a bred sale. Big and really put together. They turned out to be about the biggest dogs I ever owned and none of them are around today.
The boy basically decides what we keep these days...with a little helpful input from the old man! He tends to appreciate size and what her momma has done for the bottom line, than I do!

[rkaiser]

Too many suggestions to list in a hurry, but this size thing that your son is on to is definitely good to hear. Taking those big heifers off and marketing them as terminal beef will not only help your farm, but the industry as a whole.

The one thing that we have changed in this industry over the last 30 years is carcass size. And a lot of that has been in the hands of the primary producer. Choosing those big strong heifers has done us very little good, and cowman's son is not the first to see the folly of it.

Think about the consumer when choosing your heifers, and the consumer is not the neighbor, the order buyer, or even Cargill or Tyson. The consumer is the housewife or the chef. Ask them which heifers you should keep back for replacements if you want the industry and your farm to survive.

[cowman]

Uh, actually he likes the big ones...I like the smaller ones that look more like a Hereford? He likes more Simmental in them.

[rkaiser]

I knew that cowman, just couldn't resist the opportunity to pretend for a little bit.

Maybe papa should show his son some of the best of the posts from folks like grassfarmer, purecountry, or even yours truly.

Have these posts supported or distracted from your opinion on those smaller hereford type replacements cowman?

[countryguy]

Does anyone here use linear measuring as a selection tool for their heifers?Would our markets reward us or punish us for the offspring that these animals would produce?

[grassfarmer]

Starting to look that way ourselves Countryguy. We measured some bulls recently and were quite impressed with the results - although we aren't well practised or accurate at it there was a definate type emerged across all the bulls/ages. We plan to measure some heifers/cows in the spring. It really is just putting a scientific measurement on the things the master breeders of earlier generations could eyeball when assessing cattle. Modern day EPD wizards likely won't buy into it as it doesn't agree with their junk science. Their preference is to select for feedlot cattle not grass cattle.
It depends the standards you are measuring for but I assume you learn this from some of the "grass genetic" people like I do. If you select for the kind they advocate they will make the best cows and the most efficient feedlots animals. Perhaps if you try to sell bred heifers on the open market there might be customer resistance as most guys seem to like #1. Big #2. Slab sided and #3.Big

[cowman]

Well Randy, I would say they have basically supported what I have always chosen for. Although I do like a fairly big cow I have never gone for these leggy no gut cows. And I definitely select for good hair coat and not hide bound...never liked slick haired cattle and that is one of my problems with the early Gelvieh cattle.
At the same time, realize I produce calves for my customer...the feedlot? Have no interest in getting into any exotic value added grass finished type market. If the feedlot says Angus, I'll use Angus, if the feedlot says Charlais, I'll use Charlais.
I am not against any breed. I do believe I raise efficient cattle for the purpose intended? Yes sometimes they get too big for my own personal preference and it is a constant balancing act without a doubt. I do know the calves that make me the most money are the ones that weigh the most in the fall and sell near the top of the market. I have found you can have different percentages of various breeds in any cow and it doesn't necessarily mean she is less or more efficient.

[cowman]

cowman, after 30 years in the cow business I still pick my replacement heifers based on eyeballing them and the following traits of their mama:
ease of calving year after year; milking ability; good feet; good udder;, and good disposition. If the mother has been in the herd for several years I likely have other daughters here as well, so the predictiblity is a trait I rely on and that is what EPD's are supposed to do although I am not totally impressed by them.
I am not a fan of big cows, even with purebred limos there are some huge cows and I have never bred for that trait because I don't honestly feel that the larger cows pay their way when compared to the medium and smaller cows.

[cowman]

Well we usually end up with cows in that 1400-1500 lb. range...in the fall. Won't deny some of them are bigger but the majority fall within that range.
I don't know if the ones pushing the top of the scale eat more than the ones near the bottom...they all get fed together. Its sort of like "Okay heres what you get...you sort it out! Come fall you better produce me X pounds of calf or its adios!" The top four or five producing cows this year(steer calves only) were right in that 1400-1500 range...actually have very few cows over 1500 lbs.(in the fall). And by the way the fall is when they actually would weigh heaviest....around here.
Sold the bigger steer calves in the fall. Weaned the "replacement heifers" in late January, still have the "scrubbies" out with the cows...most of them are "range weaned" although some dumb young cows still feed them! Will wean those soon, as the cows start calving in April! Pretty crude system, I will admit but it is easy!
I do not feed very well. 22 lbs. of various hay(none that I would describe as horse hay) and all the two row barley straw with chaff saver, they might desire. We only pull the bulls from April to June 20. We get a few late calves(especially since no cull from May 2003) but I never get bent out of shape over it. I figure when a calf is born is not important...but when you sell him!
The whole idea that a cow has to be in a certain condition to breed is sort of wrong? The fact is she needs to be on a rising plane of nutrition to come into estrus! Which probably explains why fat cows often have a poor conception rate...maybe more so than skinny cows that are rapidly gaining weight?
I am sure the "experts" would be horrified by how I run cows but hey if it works for me then that is all that matters?

[smcgrath76]

Interesting topic. First, we use EPD to select sires. It is not all we use, but we have found they work exceptionally well, and the differences really do show up, especially if you feed your own calves. The big problem with EPD is not with EPD, it is the fact that a lot of producers don't know what they are trying to get done, so they consistently work on the bigger is better philosophy. We use sires with different EPD profiles for different purposes. If you don't use performance data or believe in EPD, that's fine too. It works for us.
We also use previous knowledge of the mother, visual appraisal, calf prices, herd size, and expansion plans. We like looking at cows, so generally by the time weaning comes along, we have a pretty good picture of which heifers we want to keep and which ones are better suited for greener pastures.
It is certainly not a good business model but we enjoy picking, discussing breeding and seeing how heifers turn out. Even though he likes the cheque from feeder cattle, I think my dad would be truly happy if every calf was a heifer worthy of entering the herd and we could spend most of our time looking them over and sorting out a breeding program for them.

[cowman]

Around here it is basically I hold the gate and get my orders of "in" or "by"! Now sometimes, I might not hear so good...but usually get a blast if I don't follow orders! We usually disagree on a couple of head!
My son has it figured out long before we get to the cutting and he can be awful set in his opinions, unlike the old man who is fairly easy and can go with the flow!

[cowman]

cowman, I nearly choked on my coffee on that post !!! I bet it gets pretty interesting sorting and working cows at your place !!!! As with many others !!

My sons are in the oil patch and thank the Lord for that one or we would have some major DISCUSSIONS if they were both out in the corral HELPING !

Found out early on that neither of them had the patience to deal with critters !!!!!

[cowman]

I also find, as I get older "quiet" becomes more of a selection goal? I guess everyone has a few of those calves who are just naturally friendly? They always get my vote!

[cowman]

Maybe if I was a professional cow wrestler like grassfarmer, I wouldn't be so concerned with picking quiet cows! LOL

[cowman]

Nice quiet cows certainly are a bonus, and it seems like my heifers are getting quieter each year so maybe I am injecting some good genetics or maybe I am just a CALMING influence !!!