Nicolaas - oat silage

[ALLFARMER]

I have to ask some dumb questions here, why wouldn't you bale the oats as green feed wouldn't that require less equipment? Also why do you prefer oats silage over barley silage?

[cowman]

I would also like to ask a few questions? I'll be the first to admit I know zero about silage.
One of the local dairy guys told me last year they averaged about 11 tons per acre(barley silage)...now I don't know if that was tonnes or tons and I don't know at what moisture it was put up at?
Now occasionally, over the years, I have put up barley greenfeed and usually total tonnage is not better than you would get on well fertilized alphalfa/grass hay? And I am not sure about protein levels or total energy of either of these crops?
If my dairy farmer example of 11 tons per acre(say at 60% moisture) was brought down to a dry matter basis of 13% then would it be safe to say that dry matter production was 4,767 lbs/acre or 2.38 tons/acre? Decent hay will at least do that?
I do realize that silage can retain more quality than dried hay especially when weather is poor.
But also consider this: You are hauling a lot of "water" both in and out and of course that also has a cost?
I would think to justify the cost of extra equipment one would need to do a fairly large acreage of silage? Which may be why so many custom operators exist?
Not in any way trying to change anybodies mind on this question...just asking about the economics of it?

[nicolaas]

not really a dumb question.... read this board and everyone figures their way works for them, so a guy should take everything with a grain of salt. I will try to explain my reasoning. I use oat silage since the input costs are lower. I live in a drier area and I notice I can get higher yeilds out of oats then barley in a typical year, almost 40% more for less input costs. I grain farm, so I can no till everything in, and swath, and get it custom chopped and hauled. I analyze my feed, so I know if I have to add mineral and add oats/wheat/screenings etc. to the mix wagon to get a balanced maintenance ration. I have found I can grow silage/take it off and mix it to form a complete ration with straw/grain/mineral for 0.78$ per cow/day, (this includes charging out each bale of straw at 20$ each, mineral costs, elevator grain costs, etc) and if you add .40$ per day yardage,it comes to 1.18$ per day. THis includes 15% profit to my grain side of the operation ( which includes land payment on the quarter, fuel inputs, etc). My oat swath grazing comes in at $.48 per day, so it is definitely cheaper, but the cows are not getting a balanced diet, so I still have to supplement.(according to tests) In a normal year, especially in a dry year, I find seeded feed oats/barley will out perform hay for yeild in a no till crop once adjusted for dry matter Silage is taken off usually at 65% moisture, hay at 15%. This means less land tied up in feed production. Silage will also keep for 2 or three years, hay goes down hill fast after a summer. A downside is needing a mix wagon to get a good ration, and starting up a tractor but you still can spend a day feeding and then open gates for a week if you have enough paddocks. - no need to feed every day.

[cowman]

Thank you nicolaas. I think you answered my questions. And without a doubt using land more efficientally is very important. You make a good case for the system you use.

[samsdad]

Here is my figuring on comparing production of dry feed versus silage. 11 tons silage at 60% moisture is 4.4 tons dry matter and that would be equal to 5.06 tons hay or greenfeed at 13% moisture content. Not sure if I am correct but this is the way I do it.

[grassfarmer]

Nicolaas, out of interest what value does your silage go into the mixer wagon at? counting your production costs and the 15% profit to your arable side? Would be interested to compare it to what we pay for bought in silage.

[cowman]

samsdad: Yes you have the right dry matter content at 4.4 tons. Don't know what I was thinking.

[blackjack]

...nicolass reasoning makes alot of sense... in our operation though we use barley for silage as we find barley feeds into the cutter more efficient than oats(high moisture area)that get pretty rank ... other than that ...great post nicolass...

[raymondb]

I have been making bale wrapped silage from a barley,oats,peas mixture and have been really pleased with the results. I have also bale wrapped 45% alfalfa with great results(No leaf losses while baling or feeding) I find that cattle eat this stuff with very little losses. I find about 15% losses when I field feed dry hay while there is verry little loss when I feed bale wrapped silage. The cattle just love this stuff.

[grassfarmer]

There is an outfit in this area custom bale wrapping with a baler/onboard wrapper deal - they make 4x4 bales and were charging $13 a bale last year. Unless that's really dry silage it's going to be pretty expensive silage. I know a guy that got 1100lb bales made with it last year which would cost $26 a Tonne just to bale and wrap. I can buy silage delivered cheaper than that! I assume the tubeline wrappers are cheaper and can also handle larger bales? how do they work out pricewise?

[raymondb]

Ours works out to approximately $3.00/bale for the wrap. Four of us purchased a tubeline wrapper for about $5000.00 a piece. We have used the wrapper for the last 4 years and have had to spend zero dollars for repairs to the wrapper. The used wrapper is probably worth about $15000.00 today. We have wrapped approximately 2000 bales per year. Our best day was 400 bales(Cutting,baling,hauling and wrapping) It was really hot out that day so the oats,barley, peas mixture got down to 40% moisture real fast after cutting.We have had some of this feed wrapped for three years before we used it and it looked like the day it was wrapped only with the sweet silage smell.

If you consider land costs, interest rates, and using the land for pasture and therefore running more cows, you are further ahead getting silage hauled in and made by someone else much more economical then making it youself-especially if you can be assured of a consistant steady supplier.

We kinda have alot of fun getting together and making this stuff for each other-kinda like the old threshing days.

[cswilson]

Silage seems to be making a comeback in this neck of the woods too-one big custom outfit kinda makes a swing through every year and does a bunch.

[ALLFARMER]

Thanks Nicolaas I think what I'll end up doing is planting oats & swath grazing some & baling some. Last winter my JD 4440 could barely make it through the open field with so much snow.

[cowman]

Allfarmer: Despite being branded a reactionary...I would ask if a JD 440 can't get through the snow...how in the hell is a cow going to do it? Hey, a JD 440 is a pretty powerful tractor...well it was when I was young!
Now right now, right here, we have about eight inches of snow? These darned cows seem to have a problem with that? They seem to be wasting a lot of feed by trampling it into the snow, unless you plow them a path?
Now I am sure I have a bunch of politically incorrect cows that don't follow the "rules" set out by the holistic dictators, that seem to have decided how it should be for all of us cow jockeys! What can I do? Where can I find these "holistic self serving communist cows"? My darned old free enterprize cows just don't get it! They seem to have this idea that I should plow them a place to eat and bed! Probably a rascist thing! Damned Herford/Simmental/angus /charlais bastards!...I could include a few more but the boys who raise the real fringe ones might get upset if I don't include them! LOL

[grassfarmer]

Rather warped analogy Cowman, surely your cows are the communists when you look after them like they are on welfare? my free enterprisers were out grazing today - finished their limit fed silage so set about some old grass - we had 12" snow last week and it doesn't bother them greatly.