ccia tag retension

[undin]

It looks like these tags are here to stay, like it or not. Which tags stay in best? CCIA web site info doesn't help, other than to say that all approved tags have a 95% retension rate. With alflex tags I don't get that at all.

[smcgrath76]

Your question is a good one. Extensive testing goes on with all of the tags that apply for eligibility to the program. Smaller tags will tend to have higher retension rates, however if you wish to use the tag for management purposes, you may want a large enough surface for visual numbers, etc.

It is important to ensure that the tags are placed well into the ear where possible. The results I have seen on the various types of tags tested, showed that the all the tags the passed testing showed no significant differences in retension.

[jmillang]

Just to follow up with what Sean has written .

When the tag trials were conducted the CCIA released the results. I have an old newsletter from them (Winter 99) that shows all the approved tags and their retention rate in the calf to wean. of the 18 tags reported in the article all passed with retention of 97.2% to 100%, so no signifigant differences on the calf trial.

I can't seem to find any data on the feedlot trial, other than they also had to pass with a 95% retention. Making an assumption that for 18 tags to fit between 95 and 100 the differences are minimal and likely not signifigant.

I offer the suggestion to use what ever tag works best for you. If it's allflex or destron, or ketchum no matter.

[gwf]

I don't think retention of the CCIA tags is as much of a problem as the readability over a period of years. For someone who buys replacement heifers each year I doubt whether the CCIA Bar Coded Tags will be readable in 6 to 12 years from now. These females will be carrying around a tag for years that may be of little or no use what so ever for identification purposes. Herd of origin will have to be determined by the old method. I would like to hear from Cow - Calf Producers on this aspect of Bar Coded Tags on the cow herd.

[Bobbi]

We are only going to put the CCIA tags in the calves. In the cows we use ingravable tags and we will just put a CCIA tad in them (one of the small tags)when we ship the cows.We are doing this because we like the readability of the ingraved tags (they don't fade).Also if we use CCIA tags in the cows from day one then when a cow loses a tag it will be more paper work cause you'll have to reassign her a new CCIA numbered tag.

[gwf]

Bobbi:
The question is; if you are purchasing replacement heifers that will go into your cow herd, they will have CCIA tags from the person you bought them from. If you sell heifer calves or yearlings that go into someone elses cow herd, they will have your CCIA tags. We use two engraved tags and a metal tag for our own herd management purposes. My concern is that if the CCIA tag is the only recognized method of determining the herd or origin, will they be readable when that heifer has to go to market many years later. The CCIA tags are not engravable and are available in only a few colours, so they are limited in their usefulness for herd management.

[Bobbi]

Yes, after an extended amount of time I would guess that the bar code will become unreadable just as the tags have always done. That is why we use engravable tags. I did read somewhere that they are trying to get an engravable tag approved. Hopefully that will happen!!!! Question-When you buy replacement heifers that already have a CCIA tag do you not have to take that tag out and replace it with one of your CCIA tags because that animal has to be tracable to your herd as well as the herd of origin. You would have to keep a cross reference of the old number and the new number.Is that correct?

[smcgrath76]

You are not required to retag animals that already have a ccia tag in place. The herd of origin (in this case the supplier of the heifers) is the only person who needs to tag them. Some producers may wish to remove the CCIA tag, and retag with one of their own, and it would be highly reccomended that they cross reference the numbers in the unikely event of a health traceback.
you may want to check out the CCIA website at www.cattle.ca/ccia

[gwf]

To: S McGrath
You could be offering misleading information. The regulations as they stand now, will not allow the removal of CCIA Tags. You will be required to tag all animals that leave the place of origin. This is the aspect of the regulations that will require purchased females that are going to be retained in another Cow Herd to carry a CCIA Tag for, perhaps many years.

[AppMan]

We are slowly progressing to a policed state. I find it amazing that this manditory tagging system exists. I understand that if you are checked on this tagging and less than 95% of your animals are carrying a tag, the first fine is $500.00, second time $2000.00???

It truly is amazing that we have been raising beef for a couple of centuries here in Canada and got by without these tags, disease must be rampant, at least we are told this is going to be the tool to stop the wild spread. Cows must be dropping off left and right. We all know this is not true and in fact we are probably have one of the most disease free cattle herds in the world. So the question is still, how did we get here without these ridiculous tags? How, because the existing system works, we do not need these bar coded ear tags. If 5% of the animals, even 1%, are not carrying tags and we are depending on these to be the trace all, what happens when these lost taggers are carrying the disease we have to trace or are we saying 1% to 5% non traceable is OK.

Anyone who has used button tags knows you end up with a herd of cows with tattered ears. There is a big difference between a calf trial or even a feedlot trial and the real world of a producing cow. So I buy say 50 heifers for replacement with tags in place (note by law I can not remove them), within two years at least 25% will have ripped ears, I am now a law breaker as I do not meet the 95% min. So who comes out and lays the charges (RCMP?) or do you wait until I try to ship them? By then I may have put my own tags in and how do you know. This seems quit simple and harmless, but what if I am bringing in feeders from the northern states and I simply change the tags on the top cut of heifers to my own tags. I now have imported, untested herd cows and the system will say thats good because 95% are carrying tags.

The whole thing is too ridiculous.

Brands have always worked and always will work.

[smcgrath76]

I am sorry if I replied with information that may be at all misleading.
As a cow/calf producer I understand some of the concerns with the tagging system. It is important to keep in mind that the CCIA program is not being implemented because Canada is a country rampant with disease in our cowherd. Rather, it is an attempt to be a proactive preventative measure, that has a positive impact (or at least maintains) on our status as an exporter of beef.
The program is designed in a similar fashion to the bangs tags that producers are familiar with and helped us with eradicating Brucellosis and TB. While retntion of floppy tags may not be a good as the old bangs tags, the other side of the coin is that we now have the majority of the Canadian kill going through high speed packing plants that cannot read and record either Bangs tags or Brands at a rapid enough pace to keep up with production line speeds.
Whether a producer agrees or disagrees with the program, it is important to look across the entire beef production industry to assess the risks and potential benefits of the system. Each part of the industry is dependent of the others.