CBEF, BIC, etc.

[smcgrath76]

Randy got me thinking. Admittedly increased demand for beef should result in either more product moving at the same price, or the same product moving at a higher price. The logic would also say that as retail prices increase and margins increase back along the chain that the price of live cattle should also follow suit. I think I will leave that part of the argument alone for now.
As producers we fund a lot of organizations designed to increase demand for beef. CBEF and BIC are good examples. I appreciate the work that BIC has done in areas such as new product development (often from otherwise unwanted cuts) and marketing/cooking promotion of mature beef. This work moves beef off the shelves and helps to enhance the consumer eating experience. As well, CBEF has done a lot of work on export markets (although the argument of effectiveness, misguidedness and overall efficiency of the Canadian system to deliver the product being sold is a question in my mind still).
I guess my real question is who benefits from these activities directly or indirectly and who do you think should be funding these efforts.
One thought to think about is that as an industry we spent pitifully small amounts on promotion of our product. For example milk producers spend an enormous amount of effort and $$$ promoting milk and most mothers would beat you with a stick for even suggesting that milk may not be the best thing in the world for kids. Perhaps we need to look at what we promote as producers, how we promote it and how much funding consitutes our fair share.

[rkaiser]

The way I see it Sean, is that even within a normal functioning market it is hard to define this industry of ours as integrated. Packers offer as little as possible for producer cattle, and retailers offer as little as possible for packer carcasses. Not bad business, just business. But for producers to continue to advertise beef ----- I don't know if the costs are coming back as benefits.

Now if we are to consider the debacle we call the BSeconomic era we have lived with for the last three years. Almost every cent that producers have paid into CBEF and BIC has been to the benefit of packers and retailers alone. Not one cent has made it's way back to the producer.

CBEF's hands have been tied and the only thing they can honestly say that they have done is work for the future.Even when CBEF has an opportunity to present to the packers; profits from sales to the USA are so lucrative that they don't even need them. CBEF will boast sales to Macau and Hong Kong, but does anyone think that those bits of extra profit over the lucrative American market made their way back to the producer. The Captive supply in Canada has made this a salmon run for the packers of unequaled proportion. Not only the captive supply of feds but the biggest joke of all is the cow thing.

THE COW THING - Ever since the border opened to boxed beef in the USA, the trend toward Canadian consumers eating cow meat has been phenomenal. Producers have paid the Beef Information Center to help the packers and retailers of Canada to deceive the Canadian consumer. Almost every steak sandwich in Canada is cow beef - retail stores have changed their labeling to exclude grade and sell cow beef (which by the way I agree is decent)BUT the packers and retailers are stealing it from the very fellows that paid BIC to help them sell in this deceitful way. An amazing story when you really think about it, and impossible to argue unless your head is up your butt.

If our market could get back to where it was before BSE, promotion of beef by producers may once again become only partially questionable, but during BSE every cent might as well have been donated directly to Cargill, Excell, Safeway and friends.

[kpb]

Amen Rkaiser to everything you just posted except that the promotion of beef eating by producer groups is always just giving money to the packers, BSE or not.

kpb

[kpb]

Did anyone notice that the Minister of Finance thanked Arno Doerkson and a few others from ABP, CCA etc. as part of her budget speech ?

[rkaiser]

Never noticed that emerald. Was there anything specific that they were thanked for?

Thought of something to add last night. Has anyone else in the intergrated marketing biz recieved any assistance from the beef information center? They have never come out and told us this, but don't you get the feeling that if you are selling "natural" or "organic" beef, you have to watch your step or you will be labeled "anti conventional beef"?

Funny hey. You would think that a producer funded organisation would attempt to do all they could to help producers who are attempting to move beef from the pasture to the plate. Instead we are seen as the outer fringe. The ones to be watched, and spanked if they try to say "Europeans may be right when they say - hold the hormones please-."

You're lucky my calves are coming soon and I won't have much time for this keyboard Sean, this issue could clog up this thread with my ranting.

[rkaiser]

Shirley was commenting on the BSE issue and thanked Arno etc. for their efforts in working with government to get us all through it !!!!!!!!!!!

[grassfarmer]

Yes, thanks Arno and crew, you were able to BS the average producer enough that they didn't protest too loudly when they were being shafted by the US packers. Job well done. Defeating all attempts by producers to gain control of the packing sector while ABP directors bought into the $100,000 a share Sunterra project to protect their own businesses.

I called the BIC a few times when we were planning on selling our grassfed beef first and was decidely underwhelmed with the response. Just asking for some simple cut out information and answers to a few customers queries. Got the impression they thought I was crazy - like "why the h#$5 are you calling here peasant?" we don't deal with ranchers trying to do something different. Promised more than once to mail out stuff which was never sent.

Completely useless and arrogant - Both outfits.

[smcgrath76]

Are there any useful beef organizations?
How do we eliminate the ones that are not useful and direct our efforts into something more productive? Or is everybody on their own?
I am glad grassfarmer brought up the BIC with regards to basic information for his grassfed beef efforts. I was going to ask that question, as to me I see that as what should be one area where the average hoe can benefit from some of their checkoff funds.
I share some of grassfarmer's sentiments about corporate aloofness, however I guess I am also firmly in the camp of what is better?
If our organizations are better than nothing and we have no alternative then I guess they are good. What would happen if there were nothing? I do see some of the benefits from my producer groups like ABP, however like everything else I am not 100% sure that it adds back the value of what I spend (even though it is not a huge amount of gross revenues or costs). Our philosophy at home is that we have no problem spending money on somehting that either adds value or cuts costs. If our $3 checkoff generates me $3.25 than it is worthwhile. I am just not sure we know how to measure the impact of our producer groups on the bottom line.

[PureCountry]

In your first post Sean, you mention promoting our product. Milk does a great job of that, but they know what they're promoting. How many beef producers in Canada can tell a consumer how nutritious or healthy their product is? Do you know how high it is in Omega 3' and 6's compared to fish or poultry? I don't. There's so much more that our dollars SHOULD be doing, but they're not. If our checkoff is $3, I believe $2 of that is just job creation for a bunch of "representatives" and such that aren't getting it done. Period.

If we are to sell our product as some gloriously high quality food, we need to KNOW THAT IT IS, before we go putting up BUY BEEF billboards.

[kpb]

Farmers_son always had the best take on this issue and his point, which I agree with, was that producers, for the most part, sell cattle, not beef. That cattle may be finished or backgrounded or freshly weaned but it is still on the hoof not in the package.

Since the packers and retailers have shown no inclination to share their profits with us and they are the only ones who actually sell beef, any advertising effort by producers to sell more beef is actually a complete waste of money. The packers can source their beef from anywhere so a Canadian campaign to eat beef is foolish. This campaign, even if successful, would not add one cent to producers (although it might help the bottom line of packers).

I have come to the conclusion that all the beef industry groups in this country are either in the pockets of the packers or the big feedlots. For any so-called producer group to spend money on an Eat Beef campaign is the height of wastefulness. We would be better off with no check-off and no groups--I don't see anything that they have done that actually helps the primary producer.

kpb

[kpb]

Any movement to eradicate producer groups would have to be grassroots driven.

I think we do need some group working for the industry to get the message out in urban centres if nothing else. That is what Growing Alberta is supposed to be all about, at least that was the intent.

I sure don't know the answer to this dilemma, but obviously something needs to be done so producers get a better share of the pie.

[grassfarmer]

Sean, your point that it is hard to assess what return we actually get from any organisation is a valid one. If you can't measure how do you know where you are? I don't like being negative and condemning producer groups without having a better solution to hand. So maybe I shouldn't condemn ABP so loudly.
The only way to improve producer representation in my view is to give up all the commodity support groups and have one overall producer organisation. I have never seen a country with the proliferation of different farm groups that Canada has. Most of their time is invariably fighting with their competitor groups eg barley growers have a different agenda to canola growers, beef vs dairy etc etc. The Government knows this and uses it to good advantage. This is why I back the NFU of Canada - their aim is to support all Canadian family farms. kpb - I think you could safely say they are not in the pockets of packers or feedlots! I realise of course that for whatever historical reason there are many who oppose the NFU and it may never fly. It is however an example of the only type of model I can see bringing lasting power to ag producers in Canada - one organisation, all sectors, one voice. Look at the success of the Quebec farm group.

[grassfarmer]

Sean, regarding the "corporate aloofness" you mention, I don't think it is a necessary evil. ABP and BIC are in my experience arrogant and unhelpful. Alberta Agriculture aren't, CCIA staff aren't so why are ABP and it's spin offs?
I hate to think the response a member of the public would get if they phoned BIC - they clearly see their role as speaking to people in the established retail sector. Yet with a website I can see a consumer phoning them up to ask something.

We had a customer ask us what the "finger bone" cut of beef was - phoned BIC Calgary and they couldn't tell me so got me to phone the Ontario office - same result, neither had heard of it or could find out what it was. So I called my local meat processor and one of the women that wraps the meat could tell me - seems I was looking in the wrong place for an expert!

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I was referring to the beef industry groups when I said they were in the pockets of the feedlots and packers, not general ag support groups--obviously groups like the NFU are representing larger farm interests than just the beef producers.

Having said that, and with the caveat that I think the NFU has some merit to it, I must tell you that I think the chances of the NFU ever representing the majority of farmers in this country is nil. The group has a reputation--much of it warranted--as a socialist outfit and there is not a snowball's chance in you know where of most producers supporting a group like that. You'd have about the same chance as getting producers to support a supply management system for beef cattle.

kpb

[kpb]

grassfarmer, it's occurred to me, upon re-reading your post, that you were obviously not comparing the beef groups that I distrust to the NFU. So, basically, I was preaching to the choir. I think that a nation-wide rep group might be helpful to producers of all stripes but I'm afraid that mostly I agree with Saskfarmer on the Rural Issues site that full-time agriculture is just about done.

In my neighbourhood--one hour north of Calgary--both of my long-time ranching neighbours are quitting. One already has and the other is dispersing at the end of the year. That leaves me as the only full-time rancher left around here. And the grain guys are no better. As Saskfarmer has said, the only difference between here and there is that land values here are saving our butts. On a cash flow basis there is nothing in it and, not to sound gloomy, but I see no answer on the horizon.

kpb