CBEF, BIC, etc.

[grassfarmer]

This hwy 2 corridor effect is pretty amazing - was down in Balzac the other day and apparently it will undergo a lot of change in the next year. 1200 houses going west of the hwy, a hotel and casino complex, horse training facility etc. This shocking urban sprawl is clearly happening most of the way from Edmonton to Calgary.

Western Canada is still dominated however by large tracts of open farm and ranch land. For most of this land agriculture will be the future. It will not lie empty while we import cheaper food from overseas as that is not logical. Enough food will be imported to artificially hold prices down to a breakeven at best price for producers with the expectation that Government will pick up the tab for keeping producers on the land.

Maybe the future for Alberta producers driven crazy by high land prices and low returns is to move somewhere cheaper? This land that's bringing $2000 an acre would buy a lot of Saskatchewan land at $250 an acre. Perhaps with that much less invested in land profitable production might be possible? That's basically why I moved to Canada - half price for land of a similar productive capacity.
I always think there is a way - if the land is cheap enough, you are not servicing a lot of debt and you are a good manager.

[cakadu]

Grassfarmer, the mega project that you speak of in Balzac is expected to be in the $1 billion range and employ 5,000. Where they are going to even begin to find those workers is a real head scratcher because we can't find enough skilled labour now.

What I wonder about uniting producer groups so that all are represented is what do you think the chances are of something like that succeeding? Several years ago they tried a beef value chain with a 4 of the major beef groups and it did not take off the way they thought it would for a number of reasons, not the least of which was BREED Pride.

If a group like the one being contemplated is to succeed, the participants would have to agree that at the end of the day they are selling beef, not the breed.

How would you see that happening?

[cakadu]

In terms of land values, yes the values are significantly higher if you go along the QE II corridor or are in close proximity to it. The further you are away, the less you are going to get for your land. People in Paddle Prairie and/or Milk River do not enjoy the same land values that are being experienced between Edmonton and Calgary.

What does that mean for any agricultural land along this red hot corridor? Will agriculture be pushed to the far reaches of the province because producers will not be able to afford the land values?

How do you reconcile using viable producing land for housing developments, pipelines, etc?

[silverback]

Nobody in the city really cares about how many farmers are selling their land for housing developments or industrial use. Right now it is all about how to make the most of it. Calgary says it needs more and more land, and no one is there to say no.

As the farmers who want to keep farming sell out, they just bid up the prices in other areas and move there. Everyone should be happy, as the ground gets paved over, it is just taking grain out of the pool accounts. That is what the majority wants isn't it?

[cakadu]

Actually, the majority probably don't have the slightest idea of what happens on a farm as most are at least one or two (or more) generations removed from the farm. The only time the public hears about the farm is when it is in crisis and producers are getting more money, which translated is someone else is getting more money, not the producer and the public doesn't know or hear about that side of it.

As long as people can keep going to the store and buying whatever they want at any given time during the year as long as they are willing to pay the price - they don't really care too much about what happens to the farmer.

Many of you on this site can probably remember when fresh vegetables in the winter came only out of the root cellar and very seldom if ever out of the store. Now look at the choices we have today.

The question becomes why are people willing to pay huge amounts of money to get fruits and vegetables and other products from various countries when we cannot get a decent price for what we produce here at home?

[grassfarmer]

Cakadu, I would love to see one powerful voice representing all ag producers - it happens in some countries/areas - seemingly not in Western Canada though. Is the tough, individualistic cowboy image too much engrained in the people?

How much do we need all this land anyway? I know that the world population is increasing at a great rate and that ag landbase is shrinking but in reality in todays world residents and governments of wealthy countries allow those without to starve. If we can do it now why should it be any different if there are x million more starving Africans? I sometimes think we are unworthy inhabitants of the earth.

The fruit /veg year round topic is interesting. You say the food can always be bought at a price - I would argue at a price that wealthy consumers have never been more able to pay. The problem is consumers, all of us,are looking only at the cash price of things not their real cost. We all cop out when it comes to our responsibility to assess the sustainability of our every day lives. Environmental impacts aren't considered - the fact it takes more calories of energy to airfreight that lettuce from China that the food contains. Look at the goods in your local Fields store, Dollar store etc all made in Bangladesh or China with virtual slave labour yet Canadians are happy to shop at these stores because they are cheap and a good deal.
I watched one of these charity programs last Sunday featuring tea pickers in Sri Lanka - the conditions they lived in were appalling, long hours, virtual slavery for life and that tea finishes up here through Tetley or Brooke Bond. We are all responsible for this with our buying decisions. We have a lot in common as farmers with these disadvantaged people in the third world - all producing raw product to be taken advantage of by the Corporations that rule the world. We are lucky that we are so well off, as Canadian farmers, compared to many in the 3rd world but the market forces that affect them also affect us.
Ideally the model of "free trade coffee" could extend to all products and to all countries but I guess that isn't human nature - greed is.

[grassfarmer]

Linda, I honestly think that those folks in Paddle Prairie or Milk River and other areas not close to the QE11 are probably better off than those who are.
Of course not in dollars but they are away from the rat race that the highway corridor has become.

I live an hour from the QE11 and wouln't trade my farm for one along the darn thing. I don't have to listen to the roar of traffic day and night, and I don't see earth movers and bull dozers tearing up the landscape every single day.

For those who live near that corridor and want to sell their land, this is their payback for years of hard work in many cases and more power to them.

I just want to enjoy the fresh air, and open space and be able to walk out among God's creatures in peace and quiet for a few more years, before this area becomes the next frontier of development !!!!!

[cowman]

I guess I have a different slant on this from a lot of the people on here. I guess I buy into the "cowboy mentality" rather than the "ant hill philosophy" where we're all in this together? Over my lifetime I've found this concept of "all for one and one for all" usually means I'm going to get screwed so someone else can benifit!
Now I know this isn't the popular "flavor of the week" kind of thinking that most farmers see as a solution...sorry.
I figure God gave me two hands and a brain? If one thing isn't working for me then what do I do? Do I change the way I do it or do I try to change the situation? I think many people in agriculture are trying to change the situation by joining up with groups, lobbying the government, trying to become part of marketing chains? And if that is working for you...good...all the power to you.
I am forced to contribute to the ABP. If I had the option I would not...it is just the cost of doing business and I don't obsess over it.
Personally I was never much for tilting at windmills? Banging my head against the wall...when that wall is never coming down! I believe it is important to realize the concept of "Thats just the way it is" and learn how to deal with it!
Hope I haven't offended anyone. Just my opinion.

[rkaiser]

Pretty darn good opinion cowman ---- on this issue that is --wink---

I would like to ad that; we are in the cattle biz afterall, and dispite the fact that Cargill and Tyson and maybe even their supporters at ABP/CCA would like us to be more clone-like, like the pork and chicken things; cattle breeds are different and CAN produce a variety.

This may be part of the independence thing that I, for one, do NOT think has hurt the beef industry.

[smcgrath76]

I am hearing that ACC should not have become ABP, but I don't think that one overall producer group could really make that big of a difference either.
1. Ag represents very few votes
2. Even if you had one big group, I suspect it would be impossible to stand up and sing "solidarity forever" witha straight face.
3. We are playing in a global economy through trade policy, etc. whether we want to or not. If we held out to raise the price of live cattle, I suspect that the evil packing empire would go elsewhere they could more readily exploit the masses, and policy would be to import beef.
4. I think a mass move would just piss off Canadian consumers.
5. I am not sure that we can go down the road of protectionism or mass uprising. Canadian farmers have been pretty successful where they have been allowed to compete and inovate. I think our groups need to help us move into the food chain, rather than the commodity chain. That is where the real money is.

[smcgrath76]

Ag may represent a very few votes but the commodity groups that represent the livestock industry have a lot of power with the AB Government, because they represent the suppliers of the products that are part of the governments benchmark in value added production.

[cowman]

Getting way too much ageement on here lately? I guess I'll have to come up with some really outrageous statement soon before this love fest gets out of hand? Maybe I'll just have to beat up old Willowcreek to get things going? LOL

[smcgrath76]

Further thought this morning...
Commodity groups are basically formed to maintain/produce stability in the industry they are representing. They are directed to fight for income insurance, marketing boards, and general good times for the already established producer. Admittedly, in new industries the commodity group is often a real seller of the industry, but as the industry is established they generally settle back into maintain the status quo (as directed by their members).
Basically the beef groups are no different, and I can see how as a producer nearing retirement or financial freedom that is perfect. Personally, I think I would prefer chaos. For young producers chaos creates a lot more opportunities for ingenuity and low cost market access.
Perhaps the problem isn't with our farm groups, but with our farmers.
I doubt when I reach the average age of farmers today (54 or so) I will be as into taking risk as I am right now when I have hopefully got a lot less to lose.

[DaneG]

Promoting our product may help influence consumer choice? It seems to me that ag producers are one of the very few industries that do this.You don't see mining companys promoting jewlery or oil companys promoting car tires.

[cowman]

Sean: Think you are a little low on the farm age thing? A few years ago it was 58? Don't know if there has been a big infusion of young blood...if so not in my area?
I think you have it pretty well right though? When a person gets a little older they aren't out to set the world on fire but tend to just go with the flow.
I remember when I was young I thought the old man was a hopeless dinosaur...but it was amazing how he got smarter as I got older! LOL
And hey when you are young and full of beans that is the time to take a risk not when you know the old rocking chair is right around the corner! I personally find it sad though that in so many cases that's the ball game for that particular farm? The lack of young people entering agriculture is a sorry state of affairs, in my opinion?
I don't have any solution for this problem. Government neglect wasn't helpful. And I'm not talking subsidies...just real poor policy for too many years!
I think also lack of family support wasn't helpful. We live in a world where everybody thinks of themselves and never look at the big picture? The reason most of us are here is our anscestors were sick of being serfs or slaves and desired to be their own masters? And we are slipping back into slavery! Just my opinion.