Sexed semen?

[cswilson]

ah cwilson, just put a jolt of limo into those black baldies, and then you can talk carcass !!!

[grassfarmer]

Simple economics Cowman, but are they too simple? You seem to advocate breeding the animal that makes the top price in the sale ring even if that changes every year. That's only one small part of the economic picture though - you don't mention cost of production the only part the producer can partly control. If Belgian Blues were in great demand next year but you needed to do 25% C-sections and they only weigh 400lbs as weaned calves would you still breed them?

Emrald1, "Economics dictate making as many dollars as possible and that means either black cattle or crossbred." Same question - is that gross or net $$s you are talking?

[cswilson]

Emerald been there done that on the Limo thing-there's over 50,000 mother cows up in our area and I doubt there's a dozen Limo bulls run up here.

[cowman]

grassfarmer: Well within reason? Obviously you go with what works?
Personally I don't see a lot of difference between breeds anymore in regards to feed consumption? An 1800 lb. Angus cow probably eats as much as an angus crossbred cow of a similar weight? Those big horsey genetics of Char and Simmental are pretty well all gone? And actually some of these Hereford and Angus genetics are just as big...if not bigger!
Bottom line goats probably make more sense than cattle...but who wants goats! Suddenly you are in a whole other ball game!
I'm not running down Herefords. The fact is the feedlot buyer just doesn't want them and won't pay for them. I just can't afford to take a 5 cent discount on that calf? And I know that is how it is! I "transitioned" for quite a few years you know? Took those big good AI straight bred Hereford steers in and regularily took a discount over my crossbred steers. Cows were all the same, feed was the same...but because they were Hereford...regularily got $50 less per calf! Doesn't take too long to figure it out?

[cowman]

cwilson, your area may not have many limo bulls but the limo bull sales in Sask. have been extremely successful this year so someone must use them !!!!

[cowman]

In a world where meat production is paramount I really don't know if there is a breed that can pack on actual red meat like a limousine! Those calves come into the mart looking like Arnold Swarzinegger! And at the mart I sell at they always do very well...in fact sell at what could be considered a premium!
The knock on them always was they were wild as hell and could kick your hat off without even trying!
I assume the breed has done a lot of work on getting that wildness out of them?
I also suspect they would have a tough time grading "FAT"? Or I guess I should say marbled as that is what they like to call greasy fat beef these days?

[grassfarmer]

Point I was trying to make Cowman was even if you took $50 less on steers they may have cost you $100 less to produce than the average auction calf - of course if your cows are 1800lbs regardless of breed it won't help.

Limo's certainly have a high lean meat yield but it is just that a lean meat yield. They now dominate in the UK as terminal sires and the beef is getting close to chicken - tough, lean and tasteless. That is the norm in Europe where you can't sell visible fat but I don't see how they fit the marbling required in Canada or the US. I often wonder if there is an almost European desire for lean beef in Quebec or even Ontario as there seems to be strong demand for these cattle there.

Good luck on breeding out the wildness - I knew one of the longest established breeders in Scotland and his purebred herd were incredibly docile yet their bulls always bred wild calves when used on quiet commercial cows. Must be that hybrid vigour at work!

[cswilson]

Well up here where ranchers still make a living off cows-Hereford cross cattle are an easy sale-baldie yearlings sell great and as for replacement females black or red baldies or else F1 Simm/hfds ring the bell up here-those higher management breeds are called 'farmer cattle' up here-you could get by calving a hundred or so but a few hundred make life a bit too interesting for most guys. Hereford calves arten't an easy sale but feedlots drool over Hereford cross yearlings.

[cswilson]

I think that wild cattle come in almost every breed, not because of the disposition but the way they are handled.

As far as tenderness goes, last year I had a 13 month old 7/8 limo 1/8 Red Angus steer butchered, hung for 21 days and cut and wrapped.
Had a bunch of people here for a BBQ, one being an Angus breeder and they said the steaks were the tenderest they have eaten. So grassfarmer, they ain't all tough !!!!

[kpb]

cs wilson is right on the mark I think. If you run cattle in a big, rough area where you want them to forage for themselves, feed a calf, get bred and come home to calve by themselves again then I think the best mom is a black or red baldie.

If your running cows on a quarter or half section and rotating them through pastures every day or so it's another matter. But when we send our cows up to the northern ranch we may not see much of them for the whole summer. It's big, wild, hard country and the cows that come out the best with the best calves are the baldies.

A while back our vet said to us that when he sees a herd of baldies he knows there will be hardly any opens. And the old girls just keep on ticking--they are productive for a long time.

kpb