Sexed semen?

[cowman]

In a world where meat production is paramount I really don't know if there is a breed that can pack on actual red meat like a limousine! Those calves come into the mart looking like Arnold Swarzinegger! And at the mart I sell at they always do very well...in fact sell at what could be considered a premium!
The knock on them always was they were wild as hell and could kick your hat off without even trying!
I assume the breed has done a lot of work on getting that wildness out of them?
I also suspect they would have a tough time grading "FAT"? Or I guess I should say marbled as that is what they like to call greasy fat beef these days?

[grassfarmer]

Point I was trying to make Cowman was even if you took $50 less on steers they may have cost you $100 less to produce than the average auction calf - of course if your cows are 1800lbs regardless of breed it won't help.

Limo's certainly have a high lean meat yield but it is just that a lean meat yield. They now dominate in the UK as terminal sires and the beef is getting close to chicken - tough, lean and tasteless. That is the norm in Europe where you can't sell visible fat but I don't see how they fit the marbling required in Canada or the US. I often wonder if there is an almost European desire for lean beef in Quebec or even Ontario as there seems to be strong demand for these cattle there.

Good luck on breeding out the wildness - I knew one of the longest established breeders in Scotland and his purebred herd were incredibly docile yet their bulls always bred wild calves when used on quiet commercial cows. Must be that hybrid vigour at work!

[cswilson]

Well up here where ranchers still make a living off cows-Hereford cross cattle are an easy sale-baldie yearlings sell great and as for replacement females black or red baldies or else F1 Simm/hfds ring the bell up here-those higher management breeds are called 'farmer cattle' up here-you could get by calving a hundred or so but a few hundred make life a bit too interesting for most guys. Hereford calves arten't an easy sale but feedlots drool over Hereford cross yearlings.

[cswilson]

I think that wild cattle come in almost every breed, not because of the disposition but the way they are handled.

As far as tenderness goes, last year I had a 13 month old 7/8 limo 1/8 Red Angus steer butchered, hung for 21 days and cut and wrapped.
Had a bunch of people here for a BBQ, one being an Angus breeder and they said the steaks were the tenderest they have eaten. So grassfarmer, they ain't all tough !!!!

[kpb]

cs wilson is right on the mark I think. If you run cattle in a big, rough area where you want them to forage for themselves, feed a calf, get bred and come home to calve by themselves again then I think the best mom is a black or red baldie.

If your running cows on a quarter or half section and rotating them through pastures every day or so it's another matter. But when we send our cows up to the northern ranch we may not see much of them for the whole summer. It's big, wild, hard country and the cows that come out the best with the best calves are the baldies.

A while back our vet said to us that when he sees a herd of baldies he knows there will be hardly any opens. And the old girls just keep on ticking--they are productive for a long time.

kpb

[kpb]

I like baldie cows bred limo. The replacements are awesome cows, good udders etc.
Our first calf crop here was from a black bull and limo/rwf cows. The resulting black baldies or broc faces and the odd solid black were the final commercial cows to be sold. Good mothers, good milkers and the calves topped the market every fall .

[cswilson]

Yeah that wouyld be a good cross for sure-mind you could breed a one nutted billy goat to a baldie cow and probably come out all right. The disposition thing with Limo cattle is probably too set in peoples minds to ever leave-when you have a wild limo you really got something. They sure are attractive eye appealing cattle though.

[cswilson]

I agree they have the reputation but as with anything else, the bad apples spoil the barrel for some people.
The fist Limousin bulls imported into this country were horrible, small testicles and crazier than hell !! Of course people AI'd to those blood lines and ended up with cattle that were wild and bulls that didn't measure up !!

For years there were no decent polled limo cattle, I waited for years to use a polled bull, but now the breed has some excellent performance polled cattle.


I don't know about your billy goat/blk baldy cross cwilson !! Might be fairly difficult to finish !!!

[grassfarmer]

Emrald, I would agree there are occasional wild cattle in almost every breed. Rough, stupid handling of cattle can certainly make them wild whatever the breed. However if you had seen the European breeds in their original state before being crossed with Angus etc in North America there are clear differences based on breed. All the exotic breeds off mainland Europe are more highly strung than the British breeds with the exception of the Simmentals and Belgian Blues which were "homesteader" cattle since time began. This wildness is linked to leaness - just as we talk about highly strung people being "thin skinned" so it is with cattle. You can select for temperment in the purebred herd but as I said before when you take the bull and cross him onto commercial cows you seem to get a throwback to craziness. We had a beautiful mannered limo bull for several years, from that real quiet herd but the calves were lunatics. It wasn't the fault of my cows either as they had quiet calves off other breeds. After getting attacked a few times by 16 month old fattening heifers that just exploded in corrals with no pressure on them, enough was enough. Good cattle with many plus points but just too many negatives for my situation.

[cowman]

grassfarmer: Well I don't know if I could save $100 per cow. I don't think it cost me much more to feed them this winter than that? Now not really sure of my costs...or at least what I should charge myself for my labor, machinery, fuel utilities, living expenses, straw etc. In other words I'm just talking hay when I say about $100? Also maybe not taking into consideration grazing on banked grass until the end of November...maybe add another $25? I did include the 20 days swath grazing after that...but only at what it cost me.
I do know we filled the deisel tank twice this winter...but then are running a one ton and 3/4 ton out of that same tank...and "occasionally" both are used for things other than strictly farm? No utilities for cows, just people! Tractor is a freebie, wrote off against the other business and it is very fuel efficient!
Cows come in all shapes and colors but nothing 1800 lbs. around here! Pretty strong Red Angus influence anymore...a lot more than I like!
I don't know if Angus or Hereford are going to give you small cattle anymore? You go to the bull sales and they sure aren't "belt buckle" cattle these days! In fact some of these Red Fleckveiw Sims are smaller!
I will tell you, we're raising cattle cheaper than ever despite some rising costs! Now without a doubt hay was extremely cheap this year?
The problem is: It costs one hell of a lot more to live anymore? And without a doubt I like to indulge myself occasionably so maybe can't blame that on the cows! LOL

[cowman]

grassfarmer I can take you out into a pen of heifers that are so tame, you would be hard pressed to get them to move let alone charge at you !! In fact, I wish they were a bit more lively, then I would have an easier time moving them when I need to feed into their pen !!!!