custom grazing.

[grassfarmer]

Sean, I don't understand your comment about winter calving and selling 750lb calves "It makes sense to me for lots of reasons (mostly cash flow)." What are the cash flow advantages you see?

[cowman]

My own take on 750 lb. calves: Yep you feed them a little more. At one time there was a real premium paid for that big calf...probably not anymore.
Winter calving is not all that hard if you are set up for it. In fact there are some advantages! First you usually are right there when the calf is born and can solve any problems that might pop up, like a calf not sucking, or a malpresentation.
When you sell that big calf in Nov. you get paid without having to mess around with weaning. You don't have the expense of feeding him for a few months. So you can feed the calf after weaning, or you can feed momma a bit more the winter before. In the end it probably works out about the same...in both total feed and total labour?
Just my opinion.

[nicolaas]

I spring calf, but I can see your point cowman.. just like grazing works if the land is paid for (or it is only 30K/quarter..or you get a lot of rain). If you already have a calving barn, and you got nothing else to do, why not calf in the winter... lots of grain farmers do it... frees up their spring for seeding, can utilize aftermath grazing in the fall for the dry cows without supplementation. downside is that you have to feed the cows more in that last trimester, and it will be colder. Remember, there is advantages/disadvantages to either system, and remember there is no free lunch with anything you do.

[cswilson]

Winter calving not that hard-cowman are you starting to believe your own B.S.-one thing BSE did was wake a few guys up that cows can and do calve on their own with no supervision-they turned out all their crabs and scabs to calve on pasture and got their eyes opened. If winter calving isn't that hard May calving is a tropical vacation with Shania Twain serving you drinks and Angelina Jolie rubbing your feet compared to it-you better go grease an oil rig or something.

[grassfarmer]

cs,I think that most people will stick with winter calving - they need something to moan about. How being a rancher is this gruelling ordeal where you don't get to sleep for 3 months of the year, checking cows every hour through the night when it's -40, heroically rescuing all the calves by dragging them into the barn on little sledges to warm up frozen ears and tube milk into them.
Personally I prefer to stroll around the pasture two or three times a day and count and tag new calves. More result for less effort, but then I'm just another crazy foreigner that'll soon be packing up to go home because I didn't know how tough it would be in Canada.

[cswilson]

Well grassfarmer most people are afraid to be lazy unfortunately you and I aren't lol. I get so sick of the pissing and moaning of the calving time martyrs. I always tell them IU'm sure it was a sunny day when you turned the bull out.

[cowman]

Well I left winter calving... so doesn't apply to me anymore.
Yes it is more work...but at one time paid enough to make it worthwhile. Hey come on...just about everybody did it! At a pasture workshop last year the speaker asked "How many of you guys used to calve really big exotic cows, bred to big terminal bulls in January February"? When the hands up were a little bit tentative he said "Now don't be ashamed...I did and most of my neighbors did...because it made us money"!
Now the industry wants a different animal and economics dictate calving later...but that was not the case in the early nineties? Times change and methods change.

[cswilson]

What we need is Winter Calvers Anonomous-the twelve step program to calving on grass complete with support people. I can give you my phone number so when the birds are singing and the sun is shining in early May you'll keep the bull pen gate shut. Sure made my buddy think when he was showing off his new calving emporium-I suggested a 5 dollar padlock on the bulls gate would of done him more good.

[blackjack]

...well i'm one of those dinosaurs that still puts in his own crop...so i start calving the first of april to give me time to put the crop in and move cattle out to pasture... with most ranchers having to raise cattle with less help... most operations in my opinion will move to later calving dates...

[smcgrath76]

Cash flow reasons...
To start, we don't winter calve. We don't have the time or energy or money or facilities, etc.
I find a lot of guys are in a position where they have to gross a certain amount of $ from their calves to make all their payments. Right or wrong, heavy calves cash flow better than light calves most of the time (note: cash flow, not profit).
A lot of these people have their payments set in November and often can't or don't rearrange financing, so they end up needing a big load of cash around November 1st. The result is that they need big calves November 1st, so they calve in January/February.
I am not saying it is the way we do it, or that it is the most profitable way, or the way it should be done, but from a cash flow perspective, I can easily rationalize their thought process.

[grassfarmer]

But surely cash flow involves both input and output figures? The fact that the guy calving Jan/Feb incurs substantial extra money in the first quarter of the year means he will need more money come November 1st than the guy that calved later,spent less and has a smaller calf to sell? I'm talking about out of pocket expenses paid on a monthly basis like extra heat, electricity, feed, labour and fuel. Fair enough money tied up in buildings corrals etc is more long term and likely covered by bank borrowing which may be due Nov 1st.

[smcgrath76]

I don't disagree with you GF. I did not say I agree with the logic of it, just that I can understand it. A lot of the mentality is look at how big my cheque was, not look how much my net profit was.
I think a lot of guys got into a system of doing things and then never questioned it again. The logic you propose has little to do with the decision making process. I think that the business aspects of the cattle business or the grass business or the farming business are the weakest point for a lot of us.