custom grazing.

[cswilson]

Winter calving not that hard-cowman are you starting to believe your own B.S.-one thing BSE did was wake a few guys up that cows can and do calve on their own with no supervision-they turned out all their crabs and scabs to calve on pasture and got their eyes opened. If winter calving isn't that hard May calving is a tropical vacation with Shania Twain serving you drinks and Angelina Jolie rubbing your feet compared to it-you better go grease an oil rig or something.

[grassfarmer]

cs,I think that most people will stick with winter calving - they need something to moan about. How being a rancher is this gruelling ordeal where you don't get to sleep for 3 months of the year, checking cows every hour through the night when it's -40, heroically rescuing all the calves by dragging them into the barn on little sledges to warm up frozen ears and tube milk into them.
Personally I prefer to stroll around the pasture two or three times a day and count and tag new calves. More result for less effort, but then I'm just another crazy foreigner that'll soon be packing up to go home because I didn't know how tough it would be in Canada.

[cswilson]

Well grassfarmer most people are afraid to be lazy unfortunately you and I aren't lol. I get so sick of the pissing and moaning of the calving time martyrs. I always tell them IU'm sure it was a sunny day when you turned the bull out.

[cowman]

Well I left winter calving... so doesn't apply to me anymore.
Yes it is more work...but at one time paid enough to make it worthwhile. Hey come on...just about everybody did it! At a pasture workshop last year the speaker asked "How many of you guys used to calve really big exotic cows, bred to big terminal bulls in January February"? When the hands up were a little bit tentative he said "Now don't be ashamed...I did and most of my neighbors did...because it made us money"!
Now the industry wants a different animal and economics dictate calving later...but that was not the case in the early nineties? Times change and methods change.

[cswilson]

What we need is Winter Calvers Anonomous-the twelve step program to calving on grass complete with support people. I can give you my phone number so when the birds are singing and the sun is shining in early May you'll keep the bull pen gate shut. Sure made my buddy think when he was showing off his new calving emporium-I suggested a 5 dollar padlock on the bulls gate would of done him more good.

[blackjack]

...well i'm one of those dinosaurs that still puts in his own crop...so i start calving the first of april to give me time to put the crop in and move cattle out to pasture... with most ranchers having to raise cattle with less help... most operations in my opinion will move to later calving dates...

[smcgrath76]

Cash flow reasons...
To start, we don't winter calve. We don't have the time or energy or money or facilities, etc.
I find a lot of guys are in a position where they have to gross a certain amount of $ from their calves to make all their payments. Right or wrong, heavy calves cash flow better than light calves most of the time (note: cash flow, not profit).
A lot of these people have their payments set in November and often can't or don't rearrange financing, so they end up needing a big load of cash around November 1st. The result is that they need big calves November 1st, so they calve in January/February.
I am not saying it is the way we do it, or that it is the most profitable way, or the way it should be done, but from a cash flow perspective, I can easily rationalize their thought process.

[grassfarmer]

But surely cash flow involves both input and output figures? The fact that the guy calving Jan/Feb incurs substantial extra money in the first quarter of the year means he will need more money come November 1st than the guy that calved later,spent less and has a smaller calf to sell? I'm talking about out of pocket expenses paid on a monthly basis like extra heat, electricity, feed, labour and fuel. Fair enough money tied up in buildings corrals etc is more long term and likely covered by bank borrowing which may be due Nov 1st.

[smcgrath76]

I don't disagree with you GF. I did not say I agree with the logic of it, just that I can understand it. A lot of the mentality is look at how big my cheque was, not look how much my net profit was.
I think a lot of guys got into a system of doing things and then never questioned it again. The logic you propose has little to do with the decision making process. I think that the business aspects of the cattle business or the grass business or the farming business are the weakest point for a lot of us.

[smcgrath76]

grassfarmer, I think some of those input costs are there regardless of when one calves. My waterers are on all winter, I feed my cows all winter and their mineral requirements are met all winter regardless of when they calve.
I use more straw at this time of the year than I do in the winter. The only reason I would switch to later calving would be to avoid the risk of frozen ears, frozen butt because I am out in the cold etc.

[grassfarmer]

Emrald, The system many of us are advocating here does not involve these costs. My aim is for the cows never to be in the corrals apart from sorting, they winter grazed to New Year before going onto feed. They were on a 50:50 silage straw ration initially before moving onto a 66:33 silage straw mix - this is the only straw they see. Their mineral requirements are met all winter. I prefer to water with snow. They have been back on grass since April 3rd so they were on feed for 100 days. The cows are in better condition than they need to be, have spotless haircoats and will start calving in 10 days or so.

I'm prepared to bet anyone calving in January or February will have feed costs that approach double what mine were this winter. Matching maximum nutritional needs to the time of year when grass production is zero and our feed costs are always highest is not something I would consider. As smcgrath76 said "the fact others do is our competitive advantage"

[grassfarmer]

grassfarmer you may be right if you are comparing this past winter, but it was not a normal Alberta winter by any stretch.

I doubt that your cattle would swath graze and eat snow all winter in a normal AB winter and come through it in the same condition they are now.

[cswilson]

A june calving cow can come out of winter a little lean and mean and slick up quick on grass-'IF' she is the right type of cow-some of those hound gutted barley junkies can't cut it. We do our rations up for a 1200 pound cow-if that isn't enough for some cows they weed themselves out. Our cows have licked snow for 20 years and haven't suffered too much.

[cswilson]

wll that lets my herd out pretty fast I don't own a 1200 pound cow, my heifers weigh that when they calve, the cows around 1400, and they never see barley, and I would venture to say they aren't lean but don't have too much condition on them. I have some very 'easy keeping' cows that don't fall apart on poor pasture or after they calve. I don't feed my cows any better over winter than we used to feed when we calved in May. They get good hay, no grain and some greenfeed if I can find good stuff, plus good mineral and smartlic .

I don't feed silage but many of my neighbours do. There was no snow here until February so any cow that had to depend on it for their water requirements would have been out of luck. Nobody in this area chops water holes in the rivers or creeks to water, not only because its frowned upon but because of the logistics of it .

[cowman]

I think if I was a Buddhist I'd choose to be reincarnated as one of Emeralds cows instead of you old "nature boys" cows!